Is building a power relay on a shielded power coil worth it?

[Nikos]

I heard it wasn't worth it versus a more power hungry building but has it been patched since?

[Hydrorox]

I run the whole avenger with only one upgraded power relay on a shielded power coil

so in my case yeah, it is.

[talemore]

Yes, it is

[drake_hound]

Yes it is more then worth it. one power relay on a shielded power coil gives much more energy return .

[Eggy]

Build your first power station on the shielded power coil (and upgrade it as you progress).
Build your PSI lab also on a shielded power coil.
You will not need any more power stations.

[Nikos]

So its been upgraded since last time since it used to only give 7 power vs 10 for the labs and shadow chamber?

[red255]

Um, its ... not that hard to put your first power relay on a shielded core.

least in my game I got one on the third level and it takes 50 days for one engineer to dig it.
so by the second month you'd have it. with tying up one engineer.
and not like you'd build anything else without it, you can only place two buildings without a core.
etc.

but whatever. you can probably make due with 1 coil and 1 regular. its... just not optimal. and more expensive.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by red255:

Um, its ... not that hard to put your first power relay on a shielded core.

least in my game I got one on the third level and it takes 50 days for one engineer to dig it.
so by the second month you'd have it. with tying up one engineer.
and not like you'd build anything else without it, you can only place two buildings without a core.
etc.

It takes FAR longer to get the first coil than it does to build a relay in the third top level slot (which can be completely cleared in 10 days, unlike the coil which takes 30 days on its own, plus 10 or 20 days of digging the second level, or another 5 or 10 days because the coil isn't straight down from your starting spot)
You're delaying resistance comms and proving ground by a month and a half if you wait until you reach a coil to build a relay.

[gimmethegepgun]

Also, mathmatically, both Shadow Chamber and Psi Lab are better off on a coil than a power relay when they're upgraded.
Power Relay gets 10 instead of 3 (meaining +7). The increase values the upgrades say are incorrect. They say the power station gives +9 and the conduit gives +13, but they give the normal +2 and +6. So, all in all, the Power Relay gets +7 on the coil.
Meanwhile, Psi Lab takes 5, and another 5 when upgraded, for a total of 10, and the Shadow Chamber takes 5, and another 3 (iirc, but I know it's more than 2) when upgraded. Both save more power than you gain from a relay on the coil.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Also, mathmatically, both Shadow Chamber and Psi Lab are better off on a coil than a power relay when they're upgraded.
Power Relay gets 10 instead of 3 (meaining +7). The increase values the upgrades say are incorrect.
Meanwhile, Psi Lab takes 5, and another 5 when upgraded, for a total of 10, and the Shadow Chamber takes 5, and another 3 (iirc, but I know it's more than 2) when upgraded. Both save more power than you gain from a relay on the coil.

^This

power coils are for shadow chamber and psi lab (10 and 9 power ~ free, each)

sticking a power relay on a power coil would only give you +7 (each)

two normal power relays on regular (non coil) spots can power the entire ship this way and you won't have to think about where you put them or dig anywhere special to do it. and that's enough power for you to build in every slot (not that you even need to, but a lot of people like to do it anyway)

They say the power station gives +9 and the conduit gives +13, but they give the normal +2 and +6. So, all in all, the Power Relay gets +7 on the coil.

It's telling you the total that location will give in power. It says +13 because it's adding the +6 +7 to give you the summary of what you will end up with for a total of +13 as opposed to not having it built at all. but yea, its counterintuitive until you've actually tested it yourself and at that point you are wasting time and resources if you try and move it later

Shadow Chamber takes 5, and another 3 (iirc, but I know it's more than 2) when upgraded

Shadow Chamber is 9 with the gate upgrade; though even your guess of 8 is still better than the 7 from a power relay

---
my only debate with myself beyond that is what line to put the resistance coms on. so far i've settled for putting them on left + right side of the second row with a workshop in the middle. that way 2 engineers can staff up to make 4 gremlins to man both communications fully

[KRON]

Nope, not worth it. As said above, it's better to build psi-lab and shadow chamber on them.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

They say the power station gives +9 and the conduit gives +13, but they give the normal +2 and +6. So, all in all, the Power Relay gets +7 on the coil.

It's telling you the total that location will give in power. It says +13 because it's adding the +6 +7 to give you the summary of what you will end up with for a total of +13 as opposed to not having it built at all. but yea, its counterintuitive until you've actually tested it yourself and at that point you are wasting time and resources if you try and move it later

No, that's not it. For everything else (including the power relay itself) the power level and maintenance cost of the upgrades is what's added to the total, not the total itself. The bonus is already applied to the base power level of the relay, so it shouldn't say anything out of the ordinary for the upgrades.

Originally posted by Kunovega:

my only debate with myself beyond that is what line to put the resistance coms on. so far i've settled for putting them on left + right side of the second row with a workshop in the middle. that way 2 engineers can staff up to make 4 gremlins to man both communications fully

After thinking it through, I've found that Workshops really don't do much of anything at all for you unless the game has really refused to give you engineers.
Every engineer can essentially be transformed into 5 power, since you can staff them at a relay. A workshop gives 1 extra engineer, 2 if upgraded. Changing those into power, an unupgraded workshop gives 4 power (5-1), an upgraded gives 7 (10-3). It costs $80 to build, $35 per month, and upgrading costs $100, and another $40 per month.
A power relay gives 3 power, +2 with station upgrade, and +6 with conduit. It costs $80 to build and $10 to maintain, the station costs $80 and $10 to maintain, and the conduit costs $150 and 20 elerium, and $20 to maintain.

An unupgraded power relay costs the same and gives nearly as much effective power (3 vs 4), but costs $25 per month less.
A relay with a station gives a bit more effective power (5 vs 4), costing more up front, but the reduced maintenance will pay for itself in under 6 months. It gives somewhat less effective power than an upgraded workshop (5 vs 7), but costs less up front and MUCH less per month.
Making an unupgraded relay with that will exceed the effective power of an upgraded workshop (8 vs 7), cost $60 more up front, and another building slot, but have $45 less maintenance per month, and so will make up the cost in less than 2 months.

A relay with the conduit and no station costs $230 and 20 elerium to make, but gives more effective power than an upgraded workshop (9 vs 7) and costs much less per month, making up the supply cost in barely over a month

Basically, if you have a workshop and any of your engineers or gremlins are staffed in a power relay, you would have been better off putting a power relay in instead of that workshop.

[Kunovega]

No, that's not it. For everything else (including the power relay itself) the power level and maintenance cost of the upgrades is what's added to the total, not the total itself. The bonus is already applied to the base power level of the relay, so it shouldn't say anything out of the ordinary for the upgrades.

As I said it's counterintuitive but that's still whats happening there. It's showing you totals, you can deny it all you want but the numbers add up.

Originally posted by Kunovega:
my only debate with myself beyond that is what line to put the resistance coms on. so far i've settled for putting them on left + right side of the second row with a workshop in the middle. that way 2 engineers can staff up to make 4 gremlins to man both communications fully
After thinking it through, I've found that Workshops really don't do much of anything at all for you unless the game has really refused to give you engineers.
Every engineer can essentially be transformed into 5 power, since you can staff them at a relay. A workshop gives 1 extra engineer, 2 if upgraded. Changing those into power, an unupgraded workshop gives 4 power (5-1), an upgraded gives 7 (10-3). It costs $80 to build, $35 per month, and upgrading costs $100, and another $40 per month.
A power relay gives 3 power, +2 with station upgrade, and +6 with conduit. It costs $80 to build and $10 to maintain, the station costs $80 and $10 to maintain, and the conduit costs $150 and 20 elerium, and $20 to maintain.

An unupgraded power relay costs the same and gives nearly as much effective power (3 vs 4), but costs $25 per month less.
A relay with a station gives a bit more effective power (5 vs 4), costing more up front, but the reduced maintenance will pay for itself in under 6 months. It gives somewhat less effective power than an upgraded workshop (5 vs 7), but costs less up front and MUCH less per month.
Making an unupgraded relay with that will exceed the effective power of an upgraded workshop (8 vs 7), cost $60 more up front, and another building slot, but have $45 less maintenance per month, and so will make up the cost in less than 2 months.

A relay with the conduit and no station costs $230 and 20 elerium to make, but gives more effective power than an upgraded workshop (9 vs 7) and costs much less per month, making up the supply cost in barely over a month

Basically, if you have a workshop and any of your engineers or gremlins are staffed in a power relay, you would have been better off putting a power relay in instead of that workshop.

You don't build a power relay instead of a workshop... you need 2 power relays, upgraded and staffed. Building a 3rd instead of a workshop? Gains you nothing. Building the two you need? And you will have nice empty slots on the ship.

I understand that you can skip building a workshop entirely, but at no point is replacing it with a power relay of any consequence since you were likely going to build 2 of them anyway and there's no value in a third.

The workshop staffed turns 2 engineers into 4 gremlins. Those 4 gremlins function the same as an engineer. There is no value in using an engineer over a gremlin. So if you are building communications faster than you are getting engineers (and yes, this can happen) then optimal useage is a workshop sided by communications.

What you are suggesting is a build order, which I wasn't talking about. I'm talking about optimal placements in the event you need the workshop to cover engineering shortages.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Kunovega:

No, that's not it. For everything else (including the power relay itself) the power level and maintenance cost of the upgrades is what's added to the total, not the total itself. The bonus is already applied to the base power level of the relay, so it shouldn't say anything out of the ordinary for the upgrades.

As I said it's counterintuitive but that's still whats happening there. It's showing you totals, you can deny it all you want but the numbers add up.

No, they don't add up. A power relay on a coil with a station doesn't give 9 energy, it gives 12. It doesn't give 13 with a conduit, it gives 16. And those upgrades don't give the amount listed, which is what every other upgrade in the game does.

Originally posted by Kunovega:

You don't build a power relay instead of a workshop... you need 2 power relays, upgraded and staffed. Building a 3rd instead of a workshop? Gains you nothing. Building the two you need? And you will have nice empty slots on the ship.

I understand that you can skip building a workshop entirely, but at no point is replacing it with a power relay of any consequence since you were likely going to build 2 of them anyway and there's no value in a third.

The workshop staffed turns 2 engineers into 4 gremlins. Those 4 gremlins function the same as an engineer. There is no value in using an engineer over a gremlin. So if you are building communications faster than you are getting engineers (and yes, this can happen) then optimal useage is a workshop sided by communications.

What you are suggesting is a build order, which I wasn't talking about. I'm talking about optimal placements in the event you need the workshop to cover engineering shortages.

What I'm saying is that if at any point you're using any engineers to staff a power relay, you would be better off building a power relay and upgrading it instead of building that workshop, because you can use the relays to give you power instead of staffing them. It saves just as many engineers as you gain by staffing the workshop, and costs far less.