War of the Chosen ruins the original's atmosphere a bit

[Bullett00th]

Don't get me wrong, I love the expansion, love how much post-launch content the game received on top of mods, and love that it's essentially XCOM 2.5 with enough new features to arguably be called a sequel.

But there's one thing that I enjoyed about the original more: the grounded mystery.
Aliens were silent, and Advent were talking using their weird language. It's all cryptic, and the only 'voice' of aliens came through the long man propagandist who we knew wasn't even human. The Alien Rulers were also a silent menace. Back then people used to be annoyed with Bradford talking too much.


Enter WOTC, and now we have three Chosen who won't shut up about how they're gonna get the Commander, the Resistance factions who won't shut up about how they hate Advent and each other, and even the great mystical Ethereals who won't shut up about being the big bad overlords giving their servants a slap.

Add to that ridiculously cartoony outfits and weapons from the Alien Rulers DLC with weird axes and snake costumes, and the game just loses this grounded feeling it used to have.

Maybe a minor nitpick, but one I can't help but recall every time I roll my eyes over Chosen threats or when killing the Viper King and unlocking his cosplay-grade armor.

[Yellowdragon]

I understand.
Xcom EU was mysterious, creepy and scary, i understand why people are hooked on the atmosphere.
Xcom 2 is more casual theme, almost too cartoony. They double down in Wotc.

Tbh imo, Xcom 2 and the DLCs fit better, because tactical horror doesn't work. It won't be scary like FPS.
So, better make it casual to attract more kids.

[TheOrangeBox]

. . . but XCOM has always had the alien from destroy all humans:
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnxS5SZBYDM

[Amanoob105]

Originally posted by TheOrangeBox:

. . . but XCOM has always had the alien from destroy all humans:
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnxS5SZBYDM

Ignoring the fact that Xcom (as in the original that Xcom EU was based on) came first, both of them nicked that design from the classic "little grey men" look.
For fairly obvious reasons .

----

That nit-pick out of the way.
It's understandable the direction they took it in as you can only go in the direction of things like mysterious, creepy and scary all of once before the effect has warn off.
Any attempt to try and keep these sorts of things going, let alone in a turn based game where tension only exists so long as you don't realise you aren't truly being rushed, will just start to come off as increasingly silly anyway.

Another added, though lesser, bonus of making things look more cartoony is that it does wonders to help the longevity of a game as time goes on, which just helps with continued sales in the long run.
If you try and make something look realistic now, then as technology advances it will always continue to look ever less realistic.
But if you make it look more cartoony now, then not a lot about that will change as time goes on.
Believe it or not, this is one of big reasons WoW outlasted a LOT of its rivals.

As to Xcom 2 (without the WotC DLC) feeling 'grounded'? You and I have very different understandings of that word seeing as what the overall plot of the game was.
Twenty years ago aliens invaded and took over the planet meaning that now people often have to present their ID to lampposts. As such it's now up to you to fight them off from your giant flying fortress base.
For the record, I am somewhat joking with that last part.

[TheOrangeBox]

Originally posted by Amanoob105:

Originally posted by TheOrangeBox:

. . . but XCOM has always had the alien from destroy all humans:
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnxS5SZBYDM

Ignoring the fact that Xcom (as in the original that Xcom EU was based on) came first, both of them nicked that design from the classic "little grey men" look.
For fairly obvious reasons .
----

. . . but I have to say destroy all humans (2005) was released way early than XCOM EU (2012) reboot

[Amanoob105]

Originally posted by TheOrangeBox:

. . . but I have to say destroy all humans (2005) was released way early than XCOM EU (2012) reboot :sectoid:

To quote myself "Xcom (as in the original that Xcom EU was based on)". Released back in 1994.
And each are taking from this which predates both by a long distance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_alien

[ravenlord69]

Originally posted by Amanoob105:

Originally posted by TheOrangeBox:

. . . but I have to say destroy all humans (2005) was released way early than XCOM EU (2012) reboot :sectoid:

To quote myself "Xcom (as in the original that Xcom EU was based on)". Released back in 1994.
And each are taking from this which predates both by a long distance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_alien

The 1994 version was so brutal to the players but so far advanced in gameplay still today it is my favorite all time version and game i play.

[Ohio9]

This is an interesting topic because when you think about it, the XCOM franchise as a whole, going all the way back to the 1990s, has always been a mix of both serious and cartoonish elements.

On the one hand, the aliens are basically the type you'd find in a low-budger 1950s sci-fi film. Heck, the Mutons are literally based on an obscure toy from the 1970s.

On the other hand, while the aliens are pretty cartoonish, their weapons, powers, abilities, and actions are legitimately terrifying. That, combined with the mysterious and unknown nature of their real agenda, made it very easy to take plot of the game and threat the aliens posed very seriously.

I do agree that XCOM 2 did sort of cut down on the unknown mystery elements of the franchise. But at the same time, with so many XCOM games out now, they couldn't keep the alien agenda a total mystery forever. At some point they had to reveal something about the aliens, or else the unknown aspects would be seen as nothing but an excuse for lazy writing, or making aliens be generically evil just for the sake of being evil without any purpose behind their actions.

Also I would point out that XCOM 2 isn't anywhere nearly as cartoonish or silly as the most recent XCOM game: Chimera Squad. Zero Punctuation had a great review covering how absurd that game was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV3wVaCajFo

[Shift]

I've also noticed the developers were slowly but steadly going towards a less serious, almost cartoonish approach each new release.

As said above, their newest title (Chimera Squad) wouldn't be outside the realm of a young teen cartoon show.

We all hope they get a bit more grounded on a possible XCOM 3, otherwise we'll be dealing with a cell shading title rated 13 by ESRB.

[Bullett00th]

Originally posted by Amanoob105:

As to Xcom 2 (without the WotC DLC) feeling 'grounded'? You and I have very different understandings of that word seeing as what the overall plot of the game was.
Twenty years ago aliens invaded and took over the planet meaning that now people often have to present their ID to lampposts. As such it's now up to you to fight them off from your giant flying fortress base.
For the record, I am somewhat joking with that last part.

I guess grounded is a big word to use for a game like XCOM, but what I mean is there's a certain suspension of disbelief that helps me get immersed in a world overtaken by aliens and experimenting on humans.

That suspension of disbelief got completely shattered with WOTC characters - heroes and villains alike - talking non-stop, and with their dialogue resembling Shredder from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles shouting 'it's not over yet!' before disappearing into the ground with Rocksteady and Bebop.


It's not bad. It's just different enough for me to notice that XCOM2 had a completely different mood when it launched.

[Mistfox]

To be fair, I can "see" the X-Com franchise split into 3 different "eras" or something similar.
When the XCom reboot first came out, I utterly could not get used to it because of how many corners they cut in the combat phase. In the old X-Com/TFD/Apocalypse, intervening terrain really mattered and putting stuff between you and the enemy helped a lot to stave off incoming fire even if you were standing in the open. The new system that counts only cover in the square you are on resulted in a lot of rage inducing situations like getting hit through 2 walls, a door and a bookshelf because to the game, those things are not there and you can get shot at even if you just showed a toe. Which can also lead to "through the floor" shots sometimes.

So I see it as 1) the hard gritty realistic era where you can have a squadie jump out of a Skyranger and instantly get killed by a Sectoid's reaction fire (X-Com/TFD/Apocalypse), 2) the turn based creepy atmosphere era (XCom EU/XCOM2) and 3) the current cartoony era (WotC(I keep reading that as Wizards of the Coast lol)/Chimera Squad).

Of course there is also the rather short lived FPS shooter and X-Com Interceptor but those don't really count.

Originally posted by ravenlord69:

The 1994 version was so brutal to the players but so far advanced in gameplay still today it is my favorite all time version and game i play.

You tried Xenonauts? It is very similar and a blast too.

[DasaKamov]

Er, has anyone in the "XCOM should be Serious Bizness" camp even SEEN the 1994 version's intro movie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX0Cm3N_n6k
TL;DW version:

*Purple Muscle-Bound Aliens wearing Green Leotards massacre a bunch of civilians while twirling their villainous moustaches

*X-Com Soldiers wearing Purple Spandex ("Feels like I'm wearing nothing at all! Nothing at all! Nothing at all!") superhero-fly out of their space-jet to gun down beefcake aliens like 80's action movies

*Red-catsuit-wearing alien leader shakes their fist at plucky Saturday-morning-cartoon-hero-team and says, "I'll get you next time, X-Com! Neeeeeext tiiiiiime!" before fleeing in silver flying saucer

*X-Com Soldiers flex and pose for title screen

[Ohio9]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

Er, has anyone in the "XCOM should be Serious Bizness" camp even SEEN the 1994 version's intro movie?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX0Cm3N_n6k
TL;DW version:

*Purple Muscle-Bound Aliens wearing Green Leotards massacre a bunch of civilians while twirling their villainous moustaches

*X-Com Soldiers wearing Purple Spandex ("Feels like I'm wearing nothing at all! Nothing at all! Nothing at all!") superhero-fly out of their space-jet to gun down beefcake aliens like 80's action movies

*Red-catsuit-wearing alien leader shakes their fist at plucky Saturday-morning-cartoon-hero-team and says, "I'll get you next time, X-Com! Neeeeeext tiiiiiime!" before fleeing in silver flying saucer

*X-Com Soldiers flex and pose for title screen

True, but contrast that with the game over sequence, which is quite dark and deadly serious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iXqZD71jyI

Like I said, the XCOM games have always been an interesting combination of both serious and cartoonish elements.

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Ohio9:

Like I said, the XCOM games have always been an interesting combination of both serious and cartoonish elements.

That's fair - I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with my reply, but I understand and appreciate the sentiment of the OP.

The first Firaxis XCOM remake had a lot of "What the **** is that?!" lore, which made for a great foreboding atmostphere. I personally enjoy the Chosen and their banter, but I understand how their inclusion might remove that ominous feeling for other players.

[Ohio9]

Originally posted by DasaKamov:

The first Firaxis XCOM remake had a lot of "What the **** is that?!" lore, which made for a great foreboding atmostphere. I personally enjoy the Chosen and their banter, but I understand how their inclusion might remove that ominous feeling for other players.

Agreed. Even before WOTC, I think XCOM 2 had a lot of silly elements I found very detrimental to the plot. Mainly I hated the notion that most of humanity had willfully submitted to alien rule and were buying their nonsense propaganda, as if the average human would be totally cool with vipers and sectoids patrolling their streets.

And of course, there was the fact that you were flying around in this giant flying Avengers-style super carrier that could easily be detected with real life technology, but somehow the aliens with their super-science fiction tech can't find.

To me that was way more harmful to the immersion of the game than the Chosen were. ZP did a good job covering that as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFDLjmvNNnU

[DasaKamov]

Originally posted by Ohio9:

as if the average human would be totally cool with vipers and sectoids patrolling their streets.

To be fair, the average human citizen never saw anything other than ADVENT troops and MECs; Shen and Tygan mention in-game that even the numerous monuments to the Elders are viewed by the everyday populace as some form of harmless, abstract art.

And, as Tygan said, people were willing to give up a lot in exchange for the aliens bringing the *literal* cure for cancer (and all other diseases) to the human race.

Also, Advent burgers.