Reapers are weak, templars are overpowered

[sick duck]

Seriously, wtf am I going to do with a reaper? Got one all the way up to colonel that I hardly ever use. Only time I've ever deployed a reaper is when I feel like I want to avoid fighting any aliens which shouldn't be a problem if the squad does plenty of damage which is something the reaper is generally quite bad at.

The templar is just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insanely overpowered, namely because of its huge mobility and tanking ability, not to mention the fact that it can simply swap places with any big bad alien right into the killing fields for my 5 colonels to gang bang.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by ADVENT:

Why do people hate so much on Skrimishers ? I've seen dozens of posts saying "Skrimishers garbage, reaper OP"

Because they're a class that wants to stay still but can't hit anything if they do, wants to shoot at close range but is garbage if they use an action point to move, and its abilities either just serve to somewhat counter their immense lack of mobility or are outclassed by a grenadier.
They'd be amazing if they had an assault rifle instead of that horrible Bullpop.

[Assault Unicorn]

With Reaper you're going to Remote Start the hell out of those tanks and vehicles, obviously

[red255]

a colonel reaper has homing mine, x2 and banish.

homing mine does 8 damage and makes the next shot on the target 100% chance to hit.

so Ideally you toss a homing mine, and have a sniper use deadeye from downtown.... while the target is on the roof.

he can do that twice, and then use banish. which with a scope and extended mag and tactical rigging with special ammo is alot of damage.

[Abrakadabra]

Originally posted by happy:

The hardest part of this game is early game.

In the first two months a templar or a skirmisher are way more useful on timed missions than a reaper can ever dream of.

Reapers are nice on paper, but aren't remotely needed, where as justice and rend simply take care of one trooper(far away lancer?) per pod.

Dwl.

This is so far from how things really are (reaper is infinitely more powerful than Templar could ever hope to be) that I had to smile hard for a moment.

Its funny, how ppl can look at the same thing and see things so differently.

To me it its kinda completly weird to even suggest, that templar is stronger. I think a lot of ppl dont really know about scouting or what scouting actually means.

Scouting means among other things that you have vision, intel and knowledge of enemy composition, location, numbers, movement and so on.

Intel is what wins you the fight, the war and triumph where others failed. Know your enemy. Reeaper is the single most powerful class because it cannot really be quantified just how useful intel really is at least thats prolly why some ppl dont really understand the fuss surrounding reapers.

Reapers = Unmatched when it comes to giving you, the player, the initiative.

initiative = you choose when, where and in what manner you overcome the opposition on the map. You will be the one surprising, ambushing, maxing your aim using advantageous positions in relation to the enemies that have been (safely) scouted by your reaper and significantly weakend before the actual engament via remote start or claymore. Not only that, they can annihilate any single unit in emergenices. They can kill sutff without ever being revelaed.

Damn. I mean.....its lik the devs wanted to make Reapers super strong and useful and then doubled the skills and their overall prowess and then trippled it.

Thats how powerful they.

If you turely believe that Templars are even on the same level, then you dont know what youre talking about. You really dont.

Reaper is several leagues above Templars, which are not even really mediorce, but more like the by far weakest class in the entire game. Their lack of any substantial ranged optons in early to mid game renders them virtually useless compared to Ninjas like Reapers. Reaper is like a god and Templar is like a elderly monk. They both have something to do with spirituality and gods and angels and all that. But you cant really compare the to. one is a god, one is mere mortal.

Thats how it is with Templars and Reapers.

Templars are small little mortals. Reapers are godly. Insaenly powerful.

[Demon of Razgriz]

Like someone else mentioned, all 3 classes are well balanced and equally powerful in their given roles. Now, based on YOUR playstyle, you may find one more useful than another, but that doesn't mean they are OP or UP, it just means you like one playstyle over another.

[Koroshi_Teyaru]

Templars are limited but good at what they can do early. They don't really get great (or versatile) until high rank (and you really need the skill that leaves focus from other kills if you want to use focus powers).

Reapers get nasty (but map-dependent) early. But they can be hard to use early because of a real lack of firepower. They stay scouts mostly until very high rank (getting perma vision, and a few guaranteed to stay hidden shots in middle ranks). Late, they get banish (which is great, once) and an extra mine. But mostly they are for maps where you don't start hidden, have lots of time and/or are full of things that go boom. Great for city escapes, retaliations, and busting factories.

Skirmishers are designed to get you through the rough part of the game. They start with and quickly get skills other units won't get for months, AND they are quick and cheap to give better weapons to. Having 2 possible actions is strongest when the squad is 4 or 5. Just keep on high ground as much as you can (aim bonus is big), and give them at least an extra mag of free reload (so they can shoot 2 turns in a row). The problem is that they get relatively weaker at Major and Colonel (the skills aren't useless, but everyone else is getting MUCH better), plus, they are weak against armor. Basically, after you take care of the first Chosen, the Skirmisher is more of a support piece (good for doing spy missions and supporting secondary attacks). While the other 2 faction pieces (and grenadiers and rangers) are amazing at top ranks, and snipers are ridiculous once you have the Hunter's weapons). But by the time you get there, it should be a matter of WHEN you win, not with who.

[Igorious]

Reaper =
1. A sight for snipers for plain maps. I can kill most enemies safely from a long range, including The Hunter and The Warlock.
2. Ambushes. Just move your team to pod without triggering and go to overwatches.
3. Cover ops. An ideal solder for a mission with possible ambush: you can just run to the extraction point.
4. Silent Killer. Shrapnel + Silent Killer + Sting + ... It's possible to destroy 1-2 pods solo.
5. Non-silent killer. Banish. Kills one «boss» solo.
The best version of phantom ranger + partially grenade grenadier.

Templars =
1. 100% hit. Always useful.
2. Parry. Can destroy any unit solo (excepting sectopods) from early game. It's like untouchable, but without any requirements as kill.
3. Rend + mobility. I've send my template to cover actions with mobility rewards, and now he can run over half map, cut the enemy and run away.
4. Support. Aftershock / Amplify — very useful vs. «boss» enemies.
The best version of a close-range ranger + partially targeting support.

Skirmishers =
1. Two low-damage hits(?) per turn.
2. Ineffective close-range attacks.
3. Some useless one-time skills that require overwatch during combat with a pod.
4. Some useless skills with low chances (~80%).
5. Can throw a grenade and do a hit.
The worst version of a pistol sniper + worst version of a close-range range + worst version of an overwatch specialist + worst version of a gun grenadier.
Maybe they will be more good in the beta-strike modification, I don't know.

[Chard]

Just because I'm curious... I've seen people in this thread say that Reapers are "situational" or "map dependent" I just want to know what types of situations people think Reapers are BAD for. I guess you could argue that on a retaliation strike you'd want more firepower, but I still wouldn't say Reapers are "bad" on those missions. Early game even before they get perks like Silent Killer they can still take out an entire pod on their own with a claymore, and their scouting is always usefull.

A Sharpshooter who is built around Squad Sight is far more map dependent, if you bring a Sniper that isn't pistol focused on a map that ends up being in the tunnels they become a detriment. I can't think of one map type where I've said "Damn Reapers are terrible in towns, the trains station, subways... etc.

Heck they can tear apart early game lost when the lost still have low health, so I can't even say they're bad against the lost early game. Their aim makes them usefull there, or if it's one of the resistance missions to rescue the pinned down operative their movement is usefull for getting to the objective WITHOUT alerting every lost on their way

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Chard:

Just because I'm curious... I've seen people in this thread say that Reapers are "situational" or "map dependent" I just want to know what types of situations people think Reapers are BAD for. I guess you could argue that on a retaliation strike you'd want more firepower, but I still wouldn't say Reapers are "bad" on those missions. Early game even before they get perks like Silent Killer they can still take out an entire pod on their own with a claymore, and their scouting is always usefull.

Lost Horde, where there aren't any aliens at all, just Lost. There's not much benefit in scouting against the Lost and Reapers are pretty bad against them (also, while normally Remote Start is pretty good against Lost, being a net benefit due to how much it will get rid of compared to how much it accelerates them, when they spawn in 1 turn it just replaces them with more immediately).

And maybe, ironically, the only mission in the game intended to be stealthed: rescue operative. Since you aren't supposed to break concealment anyway there's not much value in them being concealed, and if you fail the hack it becomes a mad dash to get out before you get overwhelmed because you only have 3 people, which Reaper doesn't help with much. Unless Claymore doesn't raise the alert level? I haven't tried that. If it doesn't then you can just use that to bust them out and then I guess they're amazing at that mission.

That's probably all of it though.

[_ALuX_]

Try flanking.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

This information sure would have been useful... You know... Some 3 odds years ago.

[Chard]

Originally posted by Killmonger:

I agree. In fact it amazes me how they are so often ranked as the best class. The three classes that very often dish out low damage are Reaper, Templar and Sharpshooter. Templar and Sharpshooter (at least early on) dish out low damage often because they are stuck with their secondary damage output (pistols). Sharpshooters often have to move about the map; you have to be pretty lucky to get a Sharpshooter elevated with cover and sight of the enemy. However, Sharpshooter with the rifle deals way more damage than the Reaper ever will. Templar uses the melee attack as a primary damage output; again: way more damage than the Reaper. The Reaper's primary damage output is the vektor rifle, which is weak, just like the pistols. The only chance the Reaper has of dealing any decent damage is with the claymore (that so often needs very careful placement and is not a ready opportunity) or the even more rare remote charge ability that hardly ever gets used. There's also the fanboy devotion to the Reaper's chained shot ability but they don't get that til the endgame and by then other classes have similar, and better, abilities. All in all they are the lowest damage dealers and are so often a liability to the rest of the squad. The only thing they are good for is scouting (which is certainly a great asset), but as far as damage output is concerned they are weak.

If you're using Reapers for their rifle's damage output, you're using them wrong. Reapers are an amazing scouting tool. With a reaper out front, your Rangers or Heavies are never going to stumble forward and activate enemy pods before you're ready to deal with them. With a Reaper you always have the advantage of never engaging the enemy before you're in position and ready for them. With Silent killer your Reaper is picking off enemies your Ranger failed to crit without breaking cover. This is all after taking out the first pod with a single claymore, and maybe even the first two pods if you get lucky with remote start, and NOBODY has left concealment yet. If you get a map with high explosives littered everywhere, a Reaper can solo the mission without the squad ever leaving concealment (I've had this happen more than once).

They are the single most useful unit in the game. The Templar's ability to tank one single hit (while possibly alerting one or two other pods in the process) is nothing compered to the tool that is Reaper scouting.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

For crying out loud, this is from 3 years ago. I remember posting this when we were in the middle of some DLCs. The game actually changed since then. It is not relevant anymore.

Quit spamming and necroing old threads.

[_ALuX_]

A sectoid must have passed through recently...

[Tamiore]

I'm commander Shepherd and this is my favourite thread on the citadel.
Three years later this gift keeps on giving.