Setting up an ambush

[TheMac]

I'm quite new to the game and I'm trying to learn how to set up an overwatch ambush. The hardest thing for me to determine is how close I can get my squad before "triggering" the enemy, causing them to split up.

One thing I notice is that there appears to be a higher chance of triggering them if I move to a position indicating I have a shot on one of them. I think that's what is known as "having vision" on a target. Is having vision likely to trigger a squad or is it near 100%?

I'm thinking the way to do it is to move my squad members as close as I can without having vision or a shot on the enemy squad, then save one team member to move up and throw a grenade or take a shot. Sometimes that member triggers the group, since I need to move to a position of vision in order to take a shot.

What's the pro way to set up an ambush in XCOM 2 WOTC? Thanks!

[HazardHawk]

There is not a "pro way." Strategy works along generally similar lines, but deviates immediately due to the individual strategist's views and preferences.

The way I will set up an ambush is use a Reaper to find the enemy without triggering, move in all from the same side, but more in a C formation not quite circling, then use a unit to trigger being seen so they scatter into the overwatch

[TheMac]

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

There is not a "pro way." Strategy works along generally similar lines, but deviates immediately due to the individual strategist's views and preferences.

The way I will set up an ambush is use a Reaper to find the enemy without triggering, move in all from the same side, but more in a C formation not quite circling, then use a unit to trigger being seen so they scatter into the overwatch

Thanks. Yes, I use the Reaper the same way. The question I have is how close can you get without triggering the group? I see the red tiles on the ground that mean "If you move through this tile the character will be revealed." I wonder if there is some way to tell how close you can get before you lose the chance to set things up. Yes, this is usually the first battle in the game when your entire squad is concealed.

[mosspit]

Originally posted by TheMac:

Originally posted by HazardHawk:

There is not a "pro way." Strategy works along generally similar lines, but deviates immediately due to the individual strategist's views and preferences.

The way I will set up an ambush is use a Reaper to find the enemy without triggering, move in all from the same side, but more in a C formation not quite circling, then use a unit to trigger being seen so they scatter into the overwatch

Thanks. Yes, I use the Reaper the same way. The question I have is how close can you get without triggering the group? I see the red tiles on the ground that mean "If you move through this tile the character will be revealed." I wonder if there is some way to tell how close you can get before you lose the chance to set things up. Yes, this is usually the first battle in the game when your entire squad is concealed.

It is line of sight. If your troops can see them, the enemies can see you. The distance without modifiers is 17 tiles.

I hope I understand it correctly. But in most cases, overwatch traps are really not required beyond early game. Because it is better for you to react to the enemy positioning. If you setup overwatch trap, you are committing to your ambush positions before the enemy moves (by activating and scattering them) which can be less than ideal.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by mosspit:

Originally posted by TheMac:

Thanks. Yes, I use the Reaper the same way. The question I have is how close can you get without triggering the group? I see the red tiles on the ground that mean "If you move through this tile the character will be revealed." I wonder if there is some way to tell how close you can get before you lose the chance to set things up. Yes, this is usually the first battle in the game when your entire squad is concealed.

It is line of sight. If your troops can see them, the enemies can see you. The distance without modifiers is 17 tiles.

I hope I understand it correctly. But in most cases, overwatch traps are really not required beyond early game. Because it is better for you to react to the enemy positioning. If you setup overwatch trap, you are committing to your ambush positions before the enemy moves (by activating and scattering them) which can be less than ideal.

Thanks! That helps quite a bit. :)

[mosspit]

No worries :)

Just note that I am describing the general case. There are good use cases for overwatch traps like using a sharpshooter with "In the Zone", or ambushing a reinforcement drop. But if you can share specific scenarios, I am sure you can find good advise based on those circumstances here.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by mosspit:

No worries :)

Just note that I am describing the general case. There are good use cases for overwatch traps like using a sharpshooter with "In the Zone", or ambushing a reinforcement drop. But if you can share specific scenarios, I am sure you can find good advise based on those circumstances here.

Thank you for the kind offer. I think I need quite a bit more time in the game to try and figure things out. ;) I played the old XCOM, but this is my first try at XCOM 2 WOTC. There are some good playthroughs on YT and I'm watching as I can to learn more about the game. Have a good weekend!

[mosspit]

You too my friend :)

For good mechanical knowledge, I would recommend Ronar. This is his playlist. I learned alot of the underlying mechanics from his playlist (including the abovementioned 17 tiles LOS range)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shk74dVLVJA

But just a suggestion though as you may or not like his delivery. Just note that his tutorial campaign is actually done through an entire campaign so he can share his input at different stages of the game.

[TheMac]

Originally posted by mosspit:

You too my friend :)

For good mechanical knowledge, I would recommend Ronar. This is his playlist. I learned alot of the underlying mechanics from his playlist (including the abovementioned 17 tiles LOS range)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shk74dVLVJA

But just a suggestion though as you may or not like his delivery. Just note that his tutorial campaign is actually done through an entire campaign so he can share his input at different stages of the game.

Oh wow! Sure, I'll be happy to take a look at it. Let me see how to get it going. ;)

[Karasukan]

That video makes my skin crawl. He even takes shots without cover.

Dont use overwatch for ambush, you are actually wasting turns.

dont learn from videos but try out stuff by your own. But if you do like to watch videos try to see other players who dont use "Overwatch and throw grenades"

[mosspit]

Erm he setup OVERSHOT shots without cover, when no enemies are activated. That's in the early game and he rationalised it in the video which makes sense (no activated enemies). Again it is for the mechanics. You have already previously bashed the video in earlier threads so no point re-addressing the same issues here.

[Karasukan]

really how often i did that? Maybe 2 times including now? In what time frame? that was months ago. So stop your silly words about re-addressing the same issues while you spam the same video over and over.

[mosspit]

Originally posted by sassyjassy 💕💕:

really how often i did that? Maybe 2 times including now? In what time frame? that was months ago. So stop your silly words about re-addressing the same issues while you spam the same video over and over.

Why do you have an issue with it? I didn't spam to you right? It is my go-to video for tutorial videos. Why can't I share it?

Btw hyperbole works both ways, I didn't come to these forums for also months now. So I can't possibly have "spammed" the video *shrugs*

[joebruce185]

Overwatch ambush - breaking concealment with your squad on overwatch - is good to do in the first mission and maybe a few after that.

As your troops level up, it is often better to not overwatch and instead use the skills your veteran troops have learned. As mosspit mentioned, there are still occasions that can warrant the use of overwatch from concealment.

When in concealment, yes there is clear indication of when you will lose concealment and activate enemies (the red tiles). If you move your cursor into vision range of an enemy, concealment or no, a small target icon appears next to their name and health bar. It's not 100% reliable, similar to the show target icon in War of the Chosen (alt key). But it is very useful to stay out of line of sight and set up potential overwatch ambushes with unconcealed troops (assume you are spotting enemies with a phantom ranger or reaper in concealment). Enemies that activate on their turn just get one action to scamper, which is why the above video uses the technique of overwatching without cover.

Except for the first mission, or other missions without timers, don't waste time waiting for the perfect overwatch ambush.

[Karasukan]

Originally posted by mosspit:

Originally posted by sassyjassy 💕💕:

really how often i did that? Maybe 2 times including now? In what time frame? that was months ago. So stop your silly words about re-addressing the same issues while you spam the same video over and over.

Why do you have an issue with it? I didn't spam to you right? It is my go-to video for tutorial videos. Why can't I share it?

Btw hyperbole works both ways, I didn't come to these forums for also months now. So I can't possibly have "spammed" the video *shrugs*

and i didnt comment on that video months before you had your break.

Originally posted by mosspit:

You have already previously bashed the video in earlier threads so no point re-addressing the same issues here.

this is pure black mouthing me. Link all "the threads"? you cant. So stop framing me to look bad.

Also I wasnt even reacting to you, I posted to the OP telling to maybe think outside the overwatch-box. Overwatch later on is useless, and it lays an aim penalty on your unit.

Originally posted by joebruce185:

Except for the first mission, or other missions without timers, don't waste time waiting for the perfect overwatch ambush.

yes you are right. OP i hope you understand this. You even call It wasting time, but somehow Mosspit doesnt attack you on it

[mosspit]

@sassyjassy 💕💕

This is too much. Too disrepectful. I do not want to derail this thread any further. And I did not even want to engage you. You could have just mentioned your advise without

That video makes my skin crawl. He even takes shots without cover.

That is the cue for me to defend my recommendations. I have the right to defend my post. You want to make the first move, yet call me out as victimising you. It is just not right. I really don't deserve your insults.

Let's not make this into a backyard fight.