Blast Padding or Shredder ?

[ManOWar2]

Blast Padding or Shredder ?

[Sanctified Reach 420]

shredder always.

[HazardHawk]

I use Blast Padding. Makes it not so mandatory to stay away from explosive items when pushing forward.

[Commander Gorda]

Shredder, You need to be able to remove armor.

[Narrowmind]

Shred. I've listened to arguments for blast, but the defensive play style just doesn't seem as profitable.

[ManOWar2]

But I could always shred things with grenades instead ?

[Narrowmind]

But most people take mag weapons first because it's better to hit first, rather than plan to take the hit.. You also have far more rounds for your cannon than you do grenades.

And I tend to use grenades to control and rearrange the battlefield. Custom doorways can be really helpful. To use a grenade for shredding if I have another choice.. Nah, not going to happen.

[fewerjungle]

Shred.
A grenade is mostly to remove cover. It's low damage. And finite.
Meanwhile a holotargetting bluescreen double shot gets things done a lot quicker.

[ManOWar2]

Good arguments. I guess I'll go shredder. I might pick Blast Padding for a reserve grenadier squad.

[Amanoob105]

Blast padding can be worth it if you have WotC as the Training Center lets you buy extra skills for your troops in which case you can get the best of both worlds.
And if it turns up on another class, then they can also get more armour.

Otherwise I'd agree with the one you picked. Better armour/defenses might help you live longer when shot at, but better weapons let you kill the enemy sooner which stops them from shooting at you in the first place.

[Dad]

100% shredder. I can't imagine playing L/I without shredder on my grenadiers.

[mosspit]

Shredder. All day everyday. If you play aggressive enough, you should be able to kill enemies before they kill you. And you should prioritise explosive using enemies anyways. Blast padding don’t help if you don’t get hit.

[Karasukan]

shredder. But why this question? Is this an grenadier thing? consider stop playing grenadiers at all.

my issues with explosives:
- Explosives do low damage and are limited. (A shot & slash always does more damage. Even more so when you crit. PSI does more damage too)
- Explosives damages cover you might want to use later. (maneuverability is the key in this game. Lots of cover means more possibilities where to position your troops. More positions means more spots with an higher hit chance and flanking.)
- Explosives can set tiles on fire/acid. And destroy tiles. (besides you dont want anything that can injure your units this also removes path options for maneuverability)
- Explosives make lazy thinking. (Guarantee hits stop your brains from trying to crawl to 100% hit and how to push up crits)


the best perks of grenadiers are on other classes often at quite low ranks. Like you say shredder & blast padding but also rupture, holo targeting, chain shot and hail of bullets are often on rangers/snipers/specialists. The units that can benefit with utilities like grenades/mimic/other-stuff usually have salvo unlocked (specialists, skirmish).


my issues with grenadiers:
- limited use of grenades/rockets (when out you have a unit that can fire a gun but no secondary attacks)
- misses reach, no ways to strike after dashing movement lengths.
- lacks ways to hit two times in one turn. Or more. (I know Salvo is there but explosives are limited)

its my issues of movement that i dont like this class. When in concealment yes i understand you can strike good with its gun but when you accidentally activate a pod or the fight is already going on its so hard to position this unit.


i am also curious why while everyone agrees offensive is more effective then defensive people like suppression. I take a direct hit anytime over a maybe-hit-when-something-moves.

[fewerjungle]

Lots of comps work in xcom2 but some are better than others. A balanced comp is always good.
All the base classes in the game fill a purpose. Trying to ignore that purpose is sub-optimal.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

Explosives do low damage and are limited.

It's not about damage. It's about ensuring you do damage with the next shot (quite possibly a crit that can performed by any soldier not just a flanking one) instead of playing the odds.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

PSI does more damage too)

PSI as in psy-ops? Psy ops are a fun toy with no real application unless you play sub-legendary. And on those anything is viable.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- Explosives damages cover you might want to use later.

A price I'm willing to pay for dealing with an immediate threat.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

my issues with explosives:
- Explosives can set tiles on fire/acid. And destroy tiles. (besides you dont want anything that can injure your units this also removes path options for maneuverability)

They can also set enemies on fire. And destroy roofs for fall damage and bringing an out of reach enemy into view. Or trigger explosions. Or hit enemies behind a place where they can't reach. Or break concealment without the enemy seeing you, which often doesn't trigger them and allows you to kill them with overwatch as they trigger on their turn...
Sometimes it can create some problems but you're making too big of a deal of it.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- Explosives make lazy thinking.

Out of los snipping makes lazy thinking. War suits make suits make lazy thinking. King armors make lazy thinking. Chosen weapons make lazy thinking. Mimic beacons make lazy thinking. And boy oh boy ranger's/reaper's conceal makes lazy thinking.
This game is more about destroying cover and alpha striking rather than doing the flanking game, which is a sure way to awaken more pods which is in turn the worst that can happen in xcom2.
Perceiving cover removal as boring is your personal opinion, which has nothing to do with it being a sound play or not.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

the best perks of grenadiers are on other classes often at quite low ranks.

True for most classes, not to mention you're relying on RNG and having an avenger structure which is might not be the most pressing in your build order.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- limited use of grenades/rockets

On a timed or a force-you-to-advance mission (the only real challenge tbh) abilities with cooldown are also limited in a way.
And limited or not, grenades are useful. They are, in the hardest part of the game, the beginning, your best friend.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- misses reach, no ways to strike after dashing movement lengths.

Not all units can do it. Doesn't mean they're bad.
Not to mention there's reach and effective reach. A grenadier might not be able to run like a madman and shot. But he can shot and hit a target from the farthest possible range with hail of bullets. And mark it so a run-and-gun ranger can hit it more easily.
Also reaching far is always good, but depending on it too much will probably pull pods.
Lastly greande launcher can in some some situations reach where no weapon can, barring plasma launcher probably.


If your post is just an opinion on how you dislike grenadiers, sure.
If you're trying to force the notion they're objectively bad, nope.

[Karasukan]

fewerjungle eredeti hozzászólása:

Lots of comps work in xcom2 but some are better than others. A balanced comp is always good.
All the base classes in the game fill a purpose. Trying to ignore that purpose is sub-optimal.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

Explosives do low damage and are limited.

It's not about damage. It's about ensuring you do damage with the next shot (quite possibly a crit that can performed by any soldier not just a flanking one) instead of playing the odds.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

PSI does more damage too)

PSI as in psy-ops? Psy ops are a fun toy with no real application unless you play sub-legendary. And on those anything is viable.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- Explosives damages cover you might want to use later.

A price I'm willing to pay for dealing with an immediate threat.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

my issues with explosives:
- Explosives can set tiles on fire/acid. And destroy tiles. (besides you dont want anything that can injure your units this also removes path options for maneuverability)

They can also set enemies on fire. And destroy roofs for fall damage and bringing an out of reach enemy into view. Or trigger explosions. Or hit enemies behind a place where they can't reach. Or break concealment without the enemy seeing you, which often doesn't trigger them and allows you to kill them with overwatch as they trigger on their turn...
Sometimes it can create some problems but you're making too big of a deal of it.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- Explosives make lazy thinking.

Out of los snipping makes lazy thinking. War suits make suits make lazy thinking. King armors make lazy thinking. Chosen weapons make lazy thinking. Mimic beacons make lazy thinking. And boy oh boy ranger's/reaper's conceal makes lazy thinking.
This game is more about destroying cover and alpha striking rather than doing the flanking game, which is a sure way to awaken more pods which is in turn the worst that can happen in xcom2.
Perceiving cover removal as boring is your personal opinion, which has nothing to do with it being a sound play or not.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

the best perks of grenadiers are on other classes often at quite low ranks.

True for most classes, not to mention you're relying on RNG and having an avenger structure which is might not be the most pressing in your build order.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- limited use of grenades/rockets

On a timed or a force-you-to-advance mission (the only real challenge tbh) abilities with cooldown are also limited in a way.
And limited or not, grenades are useful. They are, in the hardest part of the game, the beginning, your best friend.

Karasukan 💕 eredeti hozzászólása:

- misses reach, no ways to strike after dashing movement lengths.

Not all units can do it. Doesn't mean they're bad.
Not to mention there's reach and effective reach. A grenadier might not be able to run like a madman and shot. But he can shot and hit a target from the farthest possible range with hail of bullets. And mark it so a run-and-gun ranger can hit it more easily.
Also reaching far is always good, but depending on it too much will probably pull pods.
Lastly greande launcher can in some some situations reach where no weapon can, barring plasma launcher probably.


If your post is just an opinion on how you dislike grenadiers, sure.
If you're trying to force the notion they're objectively bad, nope.

i think the OP is a new player (since everyone who plays this game a bit agrees shredder is the better pick) i just want to help, most players get adiviced to use explosives, i want to show disadvantages of it.

i dont feel its good to re-comment on all your comments but
-Psi ops are OP. They are insanely strong.
-Destroying the map of cover does hinder you in your own movement.
- I get hail of bullets also marks a target but that makes no sense with your ranger example. A ranger doesnt need that at all.

[Stardustfire]

shred first, padding when you can learn it in the training room