Crit vs accuracy, crit is better?

[DrakenKin]

Is it true that you don't need to first aim and hit, then the crit chance is processed only if your hit lands, but that in xcom 2 crit is processed first so you crit is a guaranteed hit? if you don't crit only then your aim chance is calculated to see if your normal shot connects, that's what i heard.

I am thinking if that's the case, adding crit mod to weapon is better than accuracy. Not only will you get more damage from crits, but also more shots connecting and much better DPS in general.

I've been playing based on that and noticing a lot more connecting shots, especially when combining with talon rounds.

Taking an example of 75 base accuracy. If you add a 15% crit mod, 15 % of your shots will hit and crit. The 75 accuracy is only applied to the 85% left meaning 63% for that part. So the total accuracy is 63+15=78. Clearly less than the 15+75=90 accuracy you would get from an aim mod, but i suspect the DPS would prove to be higher. But that's the worst case scenario.

It seems the more crit you stack the better crit is compared to aim. This is especially valid for rangers and snipers, who get extra crit chance from other sources, flanking or the gun itself.

Taking an example of 75 base accuracy. If you add a 15% crit mod + 20 from talon, 35 % of your shots will hit and crit. The 75 accuracy is only applied to the 65% left meaning 48% for that part. So the total accuracy is 35+48=83.

If we used an accuracy mod instead of crit for +15% accuracy: 20% would crit (talon), what's left is 80% per 75% meaning 60%. 20+60=80. Crit clearly wins here and that just on the chance to hit front, it becomes a lot more attractive when you think about all the double damage shots that will land.

So, is crit definitely a better stat than aim or am i missing something?

EDIT: One more thought,

Since a lot of shots are taken into overwatch, which at best suffers a 0.7 penalty to aim, crit chance is looking even better on specialists (the only ones who can crit in overwatch) because crit chance doesn't go down on overwatch.

A col specialist has 80 accuracy. We can get 15 + 20 = 35% crit from weap mod + talon. in an overwatch situation, the real accuracy is 35 + (0.7 * 80 * 0.65) = 71.4. If we use talon + accuracy mod instead it's 20 + (0.7 * 80 * 0.8) = 64.8. The crit route is definitely better here too! Not to forget much higher DPS!

And it seems the rule of tumb is that the lower the accuracy, the more important crit is. If we take the same example of the specialist, overwatching an enemy far away with 20% base accuracy because of the distace:

1. with crit: 35 + ( 0.7 * 20 * 0.65) = 44.1%
2. with accuracy: 20 + (0.7 * 20 * 0.8) = 31.2%

That extra 7% accuracy is actually a boost of 41%.. if you compare 44 to 31. We're talking taking a 1 on 3 odds to a coin flip.

[Eggy]

The code only checks for a crit if you hit in the first place.
Having 10% chance to hit and 90% chance to crit will not have you hitting (and critting) every shot.

The game is supposed to be fun. Its not actualy that hard even on the hardest difficulty. You seem to be spending alot of time over thinking this stuff when its actualy super combat effective to pile in balls deep, destroy all the cover, flank everything, kill it all and then fly home with the loot.

[DrakenKin]

Originally posted by KRON:

Originally posted by Draken:

Since crit is not calculated inside aim

here's your fundamental flaw. crit chance actually is calculated inside aim.

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

Originally posted by Draken:

And if you do the math like i did my in OP, you will see that often you will increase our chance to hit (again chance to hit is both normal hit and crit) more by using a crit mod than an accuracy mod.

No. It won't. The 1-100 bar will not get filled up further by increasing your crit chance, it will only turn hits into crits. It will never turn a miss into a hit or a crit.

Ok I see the misunderstanding now. You're not saying aim is done first then crit second, you're saying the miss chance stays the same because the hit bar and the crit bar overlap. There is no crit roll followd by a hit roll like i imagined, it's all from 1 to 100 and the miss chance stays there.

Ok I get it now, thanks for clarifying! :)

[DrakenKin]

Originally posted by Eggy:

The code only checks for a crit if you hit in the first place.
Having 10% chance to hit and 90% chance to crit will not have you hitting (and critting) every shot.

The game is supposed to be fun. Its not actualy that hard even on the hardest difficulty. You seem to be spending alot of time over thinking this stuff when its actualy super combat effective to pile in balls deep, destroy all the cover, flank everything, kill it all and then fly home with the loot.

Actually no, it seems it's either a hit or a crit, they are areas on the bar with numbers from 1 to 100, and rolling the 100 sided dice only lands on one number. That means no hit followed by crit, it's either crit, hit, or miss, immediately.

And but i am not having a hard time at all, i switched my difficulty to legendary mid run, and i am still doing OK. Still getting wounded more than i like to, but it's going smoothly with a healthy roster of soldiers and i am just getting some achievements before doing the last mission. I am just super OCD about understanding the details.

And yes the game is super fun!

[Rockfire ✘]

Hate to break it to you but crit from most weapons only adds 1-3+ damage (check weapondata.ini), its better to go for accuracy than rely even more on RNG(less risk less death), and as others have said, crit chances are calculated at the same time as the hit, if the pRNG was 43, and you had 50% crit and aim you would crit. The same applies for advent, its why they always seem to crit you from behind cover, if they hit its hightly likely to be a crit.

[red255]

what I visualize TC is saying, he's got a weapon with 20% chance to hit, and 100% chance to crit.

hits on rolls of 80-100, crits on rolls of 0-100.

you roll a 40. now TC thinks this is a crit and thus a hit.

when in fact it is a miss.

thats how I was interpreting the situation.

crits are great because they are basically slightly more than max damage shots. but they aren't so great as to be double damage no. just more than the maximum range on a normal hit weapon.

[Liro Raériyo]

Ive checked this, before, unless you can hit the high 80s-90s for crit its better just to stack for hit.

ive had situations of 133% crit chance and 70% hit chance, my shots have failed in this situation, so crit does NOT increase your odds of landing a hit at all, it just made it so if i did hit, it would automatically crit instead.

though... i did have one funky shot during the first month of Xcom 2 that had 100% accuracy and 120% crit... and while i did hit... i did NOT crit... I was never able to get a repeat of that one shot and since i wasent recording, i have no evidence it actually happend, maybe i misread and only had 20 crit instead... but when you are standing point blank with a dude, flanking him with a shotgun that has a laser on it with talon rounds... 20 crit just doesnt seem possible...

[DrakenKin]

Originally posted by Rockfire ✘:

Hate to break it to you but crit from most weapons only adds 1-3+ damage (check weapondata.ini), its better to go for accuracy than rely even more on RNG(less risk less death), and as others have said, crit chances are calculated at the same time as the hit, if the pRNG was 43, and you had 50% crit and aim you would crit. The same applies for advent, its why they always seem to crit you from behind cover, if they hit its hightly likely to be a crit.

That's a very good point, thanks. I am clearly over estimating how much damage a crit adds. Where do i find the .ini files?

[DrakenKin]

Nevermind here's the link:

https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Weapons_(XCOM2)

It seems crit adds about 40% to 50% damage, it's not quite double damage but a significant boost. On shotguns it can be up to an extra 5 max damage, up from the regular 10. On rifles and cannons and snipers it's about 4 damage for tier 3.

That page is missing the crit damage for pistols however. Any idea? My guess is 1-2-3 depending on tier.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by Draken:

That page is missing the crit damage for pistols however. Any idea? My guess is 1-2-3 depending on tier.

1-1-2.

[KRON]

Originally posted by Draken:

Nevermind here's the link:

https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Weapons_(XCOM2)

It seems crit adds about 40% to 50% damage, it's not quite double damage but a significant boost. On shotguns it can be up to an extra 5 max damage, up from the regular 10. On rifles and cannons and snipers it's about 4 damage for tier 3.

That page is missing the crit damage for pistols however. Any idea? My guess is 1-2-3 depending on tier.

I'm pretty sure it's 1/1/2 for tier 1/2/3 respectively.
Also for WotC they changed crit dmg a bit. For example, the only weapons with 5 crit dmg are tier 3 Vektor rifles and Arashi shotgun. Regular tier 3 shotgun has 4 crit damage.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by KRON:

Also for WotC they changed crit dmg a bit. For example, the only weapons with 5 crit dmg are tier 3 Vektor rifles and Arashi shotgun. Regular tier 3 shotgun has 4 crit damage.

Yep, along with setting all shotgun crit chance to 10% instead of increasing with tier, so you can't reach 100% any more unless you get the order/continent bonus that improves weapon mods. Because frankly 100% crit shotguns were absolutely ridiculous. As well as nerfing the Ranger GTS upgrade and giving Rapid Fire a long cooldown instead of none. And even after all that, Rangers are STILL GOOD.

[Mr. Nice]

You can still get 95% crit without the order though.

[Black Jesus]

To me Accuracy is more important if you never hit your target your crit whether it happens or not is irrelevant. On lower difficulties and without certain mods your accuracy can be partially ignored as you get enough from leveling up. However you still need some for optimal gameplay. In higher difficulties where enemies are tougher and have better defense you want more accuracy for more consistent damage per round.

[talemore]

Originally posted by Black Jesus:

To me Accuracy is more important if you never hit your target your crit whether it happens or not is irrelevant. On lower difficulties and without certain mods your accuracy can be partially ignored as you get enough from leveling up. However you still need some for optimal gameplay. In higher difficulties where enemies are tougher and have better defense you want more accuracy for more consistent damage per round.

In higher levels there's no such thing as damage per round, you kill the pod in one turn or the pod kill your squad in next turn.

[Black Jesus]

Originally posted by talemore:

Originally posted by Black Jesus:

To me Accuracy is more important if you never hit your target your crit whether it happens or not is irrelevant. On lower difficulties and without certain mods your accuracy can be partially ignored as you get enough from leveling up. However you still need some for optimal gameplay. In higher difficulties where enemies are tougher and have better defense you want more accuracy for more consistent damage per round.

In higher levels there's no such thing as damage per round, you kill the pod in one turn or the pod kill your squad in next turn.

There is still the concept of oh ♥♥♥♥ I didn't do as much damage as I could because half my shots missed. Yes optimally you want to kill the pod in one go sometimes that doesn't happen. Regardless you still need a good deal of accuracy otherwise you super awesome crits mean nothing since they never get applied.