What to do about the turn counter...

[Karl]

I played XCOM 2 some time ago and probably got halfway through and gave it up because I found myself in a mission I just couldn't beat. I don't remember the specifics any more, but I had restarted the mission several times and just could not make it happen. Maybe partly my own fault because I think I had triggered a story objective in the middle of a hard mission. But anyway...

I recently decided to revisit the game since despite all its flaws, I did enjoy playing the previous XCOM. I played through the first couple missions and got to the one where you have to blow up the thing inside the building within a few turns to stop a data transfer. I had no trouble with the enemies, in fact I don't think I had actually taken any hits. I got my ranger up to the window on the last turn and took a shot. Unfortunately one shot just wasn't going to do it. I replayed the turn several times, but could not find any combination where I completed the objective that turn.

My strategy tends to be cautious and methodical, and so having these doom clocks in every mission really runs against my nature and what I see as the point of this type of game. What are you supposed to do in a situation like that? Just play the whole mission over and make riskier moves? I don't normally play games on lower than normal difficulty, but maybe that's what it will take to enjoy this one? Or maybe there's a mod out there that adds a couple turns to the missions?

EDIT: I found this. Maybe I'll give it a try. But I'm curious what other players do. Just start missions over repeatedly until you pass? That seems like such a waste of time.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=618055274

[Mr. Nice]

Originally posted by Karl:

My strategy tends to be cautious and methodical

I suspect you are over doing the "cautious" bit. You have to be more efficient with your actions. The concealment you start with means that there's no point in overwatch with no enemies in sight (arguably once you aren't rookies there's little point in OW even when you can). That still doesn't mean straight dash moves of course, except for soldiers "catching up", but two single moves forward.
Once you catch sight of the first pod, if you can't open fire and kill most of them that turn, then position to do so the next turn. Generally, if you haven't broken (squad) concealment and killed the first pod by the end of the third turn then somethings not right.
Assuming you still have a concealed scout, continues much as before after that. If no concealed scout, then yes, can only blue move the most forward guy, but if you make sure you don't reveal more map, you can still double move other soldiers to get them caught up or whatever.
Generally, you should never use more than one turn once you have sight of a pod to "setup" the engagement for the following turn. But if you can, kill them the same turn. Early on, leave the Sectoid as the survivor if necessary, will almost certainly just raise a psi-zombie or mind-spin one of your soldiers. Neither should stop you killing the sectoid the next turn anyway.

[lPaladinl]

XCOM 2 forces you to play more aggressively. Either you adapt or you mod the game to extend the timers.

Worth noting that the game has a built-in option under advance starts that allows you to double both the mission timers and the avatar project timer.

If you can't succeed within 14-21 turns, I don't know what to tell you at that point.

[Eggy]

"My strategy tends to be cautious and methodical,".
The game was designed from day 1 to not be a cautious and methodical game. You can see this if you watch the dev diaries videos from back when it was released, and also the first few patches that altered the overwatch mechanic.

If you play agressive you will steam roll through the bulk of missions and timers will rarely be an issue.

As above though you can use options when you start a game to double turn timers and also double the length of the overall doom counter.

[Abrakadabra]

Unmodded, the timers are more than sufficient on any difficutly. Players tend to overwatch abuse and thus, by default kill what makes the game exciting in the first place. Devs didnt want that. Timer pressure will teach you how to take measured risks and to be more aggressive which is necessary to get better. Just waiting turn after turn on overwatch so pods might stumble into you is weak gameplay, not exciting, but boring rather quickly and scouts wouldnt be nearly as necessary or potent in such a scenario.

Initially, as long as you play through unmodded difficulties, I wouldnt touch the timers. They are fair and give you enough time to move, engage pods and meet the objectives. Once you play vs bigger pods or with beta strike or increase difficutly beyond regular l/i you can use timer tweaks mod or something like that. But if you only play conservatively and basically just wait, then it will aslo kill immersion. You are there to take targets of opportunity, punch a quick hole into enemy formations, grab some resources and then get out. It would kinda kill immersion if you had all the time in the world.

As much as timers are critisized....I really like them and hope theyll be part of xcom 3. This pressure made xcom 2 a lot more exciiting and I learned very different playstyles. Much more fun this way.

If you scout properly, then you can dash a lot of times and cover unoccupied ground quickly. As long as you do that and engage pods you located asap and just smash them as quickly as possible, scout ahead again and move up to the next pod or in its vicinty, then timers wont be an issue. If they are an issue, then youre not using your scouts. Scouts will tell you if an area is clear. If its clear, you can just dash long distances and save many many turns. If timers are a problem, then youre not using the intel scouts provide.

[Stardustfire]

@ilucv you shoud really stop you anoying from above speeches everytime, in any thread, as if you are a super brain and know everything. if the game works for you because you moddings that dont mean it works in vanilla for others. the timer IS a problem sometimes, specialy when you get maps with start target ways where even nonestop dashing without any fight let you come a turn to late. and before you give us again a speech about "they dont exist, supertactican iluv never encountered them" i must stop you right there, they EXIST. because nonesupertqactican Stardustfire seen such a map himself already in vanilla WotC.

for the TS: there is like already mentationed a advanced start option (at least in WotC) and several orders that weaken timers (+2 turns and clock first starting when team lost cover)

[ElanaAhova]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

... the timer IS a problem sometimes, ... maps ... even nonestop dashing without any fight let you come a turn to late. ... they EXIST. ... vanilla WotC.

I've run into this situation twice in vanilla WotC. One time I ate the mission failure. Another time, the consequence of failure (dark event? I forget) was too extreme. So I reloaded a save at base a bit earlier. Did a few things differently, and got a different map. Hated doing a save that way...

[Abrakadabra]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

@ilucv you shoud really stop you anoying from above speeches everytime, in any thread, as if you are a super brain and know everything. if the game works for you because you moddings that dont mean it works in vanilla for others. the timer IS a problem sometimes, specialy when you get maps with start target ways where even nonestop dashing without any fight let you come a turn to late. and before you give us again a speech about "they dont exist, supertactican iluv never encountered them" i must stop you right there, they EXIST. because nonesupertqactican Stardustfire seen such a map himself already in vanilla WotC.

for the TS: there is like already mentationed a advanced start option (at least in WotC) and several orders that weaken timers (+2 turns and clock first starting when team lost cover)

Haha.

You so angry, eh?

No.

If timers are a problem, then, as I already said, you are doing a number of mistakes. Timers are not a problem. It is your playstyle that turns them into a problem. You waste precious time. Im not here to project my superiority. In fact, I needed to play a lot to get any good. Maybe a lot more than many other players. But I dont just rant randomly and state things that I dont know nothing about.

It is your playstyle that is flawed. I say this because this kind of illogical criticism puts the focus on the timers. That they are bad. If the game is unmodded, then the regular difficulties' timers are absolutely enough to meet the objectives. Sure, sometimes things can get tough and you might get unlucky and even though you are careful you get surprised by a combo of e.g. 2 pods patroling into your position and chosen shows up in that very turn or moves pretty far in that turn and joins the action.

But the game offers you ways to counter even if you loose missions. Even if you loose a substantial amount of missions as long as you dont waste your ressources, desperately trying to push through bad engagements, loosing soldiers. That is what kills you. Not using scouts properly....that is what kills you. Wasting time moving way too slow because you dont even use your scouts....thats what kills you.

There is only one mission type, where timers are actually a problem. And that is 'reach objective in advent train'. Hack terminal or retrieve objective. Those train missions....they are kinda unfair. But you only get them very rarely and they are often timed to counterin DEs. So you have a choice to avoid those missions. But even those missions are doable if you have progressed into midgame. Using mods to make timers more forgiving, will turn the entire experience into somthing much easier.

You can rage all you want, I dont really care what you think of me. Im stating facts. Timers are fair if the camaign is unmodded. Do your reasearch and watch lets plays. You just rage cause you dont like the idea that you are making major mistakes. But that is on you. Thats your ego speaking. You dont like the idea that you make a number of mistakes, which is definitely the case if you struggle with timers of an unmodded campaign.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Stardustfire:

for the TS: there is like already mentationed a advanced start option (at least in WotC) and several orders that weaken timers (+2 turns and clock first starting when team lost cover)

I actually forgot about the resistance orders.

The "Timers don't start until you're revealed" order is incredibly helpful if you're struggling with the timers.

I do find the timers to be do-able most of the time, but there are rarely times where 7 turns just isn't enough when I have 5 pods to deal with along the way without options to sneak past them due to the terrain.

So I tend to use the advance start option to double the mission timers, and then I have the opposite problem. The timers are so long that they might as well not exist 99% of the time.

Also worth mentioning that even if you fix timers, the game is still going to expect you to play aggressively in order to deal with the bosses, as well as retaliation missions.

[Hannibal Barca]

I love it , op says only plays game on higher difficulty downloads mod to lower difficulty.

[Karl]

I see I touched a nerve. A few clarifications:

@Mr. Nice: I appreciate the scouting advice as I think I'm missing some time savers in there somewhere, although I would like to note contrary to what several people took away from my post, I do not abuse overwatch. That isn't where my turns are going. I played through and beat the previous XCOM with my methodical approach and was disappointed to find out I can't play XCOM 2 the same way.

@lPaladinl: I wasn't aware of the built in option, thank you for that. Much prefer that to a mod. Although if that is only in WotC then I don't have it. I didn't buy into the DLC because the DLC for the first XCOM was garbage and I didn't like the direction they were going with XCOM 2.

@iluvpumpum: What makes the game exciting or interesting is highly subjective, and your opinion on the matter certainly isn't the only valid one. For me, games like this are more about winning fights while taking as few hits as possible, not doing it in the fewest turns.

@ElanaAhova: Having to reload and try again or try something different is one of the things that irritates me about XCOM. Because at its base the game is largely based around RNG and how well you can stack the odds in your favor, that also means sometimes things can go badly even when you make sound tactical decisions. While realistic, it's also frustrating and takes some of the fun out of it. Normally making good choices should lead to success.

@Hannibal Barca: I don't play on higher difficulty and then mod it to be lower. I typically play on normal difficulty, and that includes this game. Actually my reason for modding the timer is so I can play the way I want without having to lower the difficulty.

[spike2071]

My most memorable missions involve a timer. The game is too easy (on Normal) if there isn't something forcing you to move and take chances. Otherwise I can just "waste" a turn (or 2, or 3) until everyone is reloaded, all timers have reset, etc. I prefer to be slow and methodical, but the timers force me to move and increase the chance of the poo hitting the fan.

You should have a large enough squad to deal with everyone being injured or a death here and there. And taking a tough mission with some of your all stars unavailable can make that mission even more fun. Reloading because a toon died or too many people were injured is generally overkill.

That being said, it's a single player game, so do whatever you want. :)

War of the Chosen is an excellent DLC. I don't know that it's worth $40, but I picked it up for $20 and it made replaying the game like a brand new XCOM game.

[Cyanmurder]

Im more of a run and gun type squad, they usually get to the main objective in 2-3 turns. My two snipers hang in back, because they can shoot very far with accuracy. Im running a 4 rangers and 2 sniper squad. At one time I ran into two of them At-At walker looking things at the same time. Drop them in 4 rounds. (AP rounds help alot with them armor)

[Abrakadabra]

Originally posted by spike2071:

My most memorable missions involve a timer. The game is too easy (on Normal) if there isn't something forcing you to move and take chances. Otherwise I can just "waste" a turn (or 2, or 3) until everyone is reloaded, all timers have reset, etc. I prefer to be slow and methodical, but the timers force me to move and increase the chance of the poo hitting the fan.

You should have a large enough squad to deal with everyone being injured or a death here and there. And taking a tough mission with some of your all stars unavailable can make that mission even more fun. Reloading because a toon died or too many people were injured is generally overkill.

That being said, it's a single player game, so do whatever you want. :)

Yeah....the most intense and most fun missions I had were those where I barely made it out in time. Sometimes half or more heavily injured, carrying one or two that are about to bleed out. Its so satisfying when you manage to pull off in the last possible moment. I really like that. I rage too and got very angry when I didnt pull through. But I like that too. That is why the game is so rewarding.

But as somebody said: find a way to enjoy the game. If somebody truely hates the pressure in xcom 2 then double the timers or use a mod. I mean, its jsut a game. I sucked hard initially, but I loved the idaa of a badass squad that wins against all odds. Always reminded me of the movie Aliens on some level. I really wanted to get better and I wanted to beat it the regular way without any help or mods that make it easier.

I still dont think that timers are unfair if you can engage a pod and take it out in one turn. In my experience, you can even take longer occasionally in a mission to kill one pod. But you also get more experienced in terms of when you can dash vast distances. You also save many turns, by doing stuff like establishing los with reaper or ranger when you have to e.g. destroy relay and take it out from a distance. Or when you have to hack something.

I dont think theyre unfair but force you to move faster and take more risks but imo that helps greatly with immersion. For me it would be weird if you had all the time in the world. At some point advent would react and call in huge armies of reinforcements. You only got a few moments of surprise and you gotta use those moments as efficiently as possible.

I just dont want a lot of ppl complaining that its unfair and then Firaxis decides to dumb it down. Make it less challenging and more accessible which is the prime directive of basically all games. Theyre not challenging anymore. Players are never punished for anything and are thus just less rewarding.

[Commander Gorda]

Use a concealed scout to Know when its safe to dash. Timed missions are trivial with a scout.

[ElanaAhova]

Originally posted by Commander Gorda:

Use a concealed scout to Know when its safe to dash. Timed missions are trivial with a scout.

My approach as well.