How bad it the timer missions?

[Baage]

Is it really hard, or is it manageable? Is it timer like a countdown clock, or does it count by how many moves you do?

[KRON]

Originally posted by █▀█ █▄█ ▀█▀:

does it count by how many moves you do?

This. There is only limited number of turns. And yes, it's manageable.

[Cabel_Blacke]

Once you realize you can't camp and turtle anymore and need to press forward, it's really a non-issue... plenty of turns to get to your destination. However, if you are a fan of super-slow moving and going into overwatch on every turn to draw the enemies towards you (which I was...) that strategy is often no longer viable. Overall, I've grown used to this change, but it was definitely something to get used to.

[Baage]

Originally posted by Cabel_Blacke:

Once you realize you can't camp and turtle anymore and need to press forward, it's really a non-issue... plenty of turns to get to your destination. However, if you are a fan of super-slow moving and going into overwatch on every turn to draw the enemies towards you (which I was...) that strategy is often no longer viable. Overall, I've grown used to this change, but it was definitely something to get used to.

In Enemy Unknown/Within i rarely used overwatch anyway, so this is a buy from me :D

Thanks guys!

[red255]

on commander and below difficulties it wasn't much of an issue except on council missions.

which spawn on small medium and large maps. you get a large map spawn in one corner, have the VIP in a second floor of a 3 story building requiring all sorts of schenanigans to get to. and the evac in a different corner.

those could be a pain.

WoTC removes the GTS perk that gives your squad +3 Move on the first couple turns before you break concealment making it more difficult, but it also adds a second wave option to double turn limits.

so yeah. never really had an issue on the lower 3 difficulties, the top difficult I had an issue more reliably. issues mainly arrise on the council mission when it just gives you 12 turns for excessively large maps. Random map generator curse.

also I suppose maps where I need to hack something inside a train or van because I can't blow up a train (walls are really strong) and if I blow up a van it explodes the objective. means I have to get MUCH closer to do the hack, which saves 2-3 turns off the time, which makes it rather tight.

[kingts]

Please don't take my comments as an attack on anyone or their game play. I mean this with all kindness

I think in-experienced players struggle with TIMER missions. You have to have some risk to a game guys. I hear a lot how TIMER missions rot, but I happen to enjoy them. I am sorry but your mistakes should have consequences. Place your men wrong, or put them in a long squirmish, or not enough men or level and sorry your going to fail and pay. That is the fun of any game. Over coming and learning from your mistakes. There must be RISK in any game.
Guerrila Missions, Council Missions, Supply Raid missions, Advent retaliation missions and many others. Some have timers and some don't. You cannot be allowed endless time on every mission or what is the point.
Some have suggested for X-com 3 that their be a TIMER on/off option. Ok. I can understand that. However if your playing Ironman, Commander or Legend settings. Expect to lose a lot of soldiers.
A challenge is a good thing, and what was that line in Ironman 2? 'Don't get attached to things...

[red255]

the issue I have with timers is well.

1) from a role play standard, why are they setting the thing to blow up if my squad hasn't been detected yet? Obviously the big ass skyranger plane didn't make a stealth landing but they never mention that. My guys are concealed, why the hell are they blowing the target up?

2.) it doesn't vary. its always 8 turns for Guerrilla ops and 12 turns for council missions regardless of the size of the map or mission type. so from a mechanics standpoint, sometimes its alot more difficult, and theres no thing for it.

its like all holes of golf are par 3 regardless of whether or not its 100 yds or 1000 yds to the hole.

[Arasine]

Turn timers remove stategic elements such as setting ambushes, stealth, kiting etc in most cases. I hate them personally. Many times you have to run forward knowing the outcome of the mission is pure RNG with nothing related to your ability to plan. Also if you have the Alien hunters dlc it can write off a whole mission. Such as when you have only 8 turns to disable something thats going to explode and it takes 5 turns to get near to it then an Alien commander appears who will take 2-5 turns to deal with until you are very very far into the game.

[kingts]

Originally posted by red255:

the issue I have with timers is well.

1) from a role play standard, why are they setting the thing to blow up if my squad hasn't been detected yet? Obviously the big ass skyranger plane didn't make a stealth landing but they never mention that. My guys are concealed, why the hell are they blowing the target up?

2.) it doesn't vary. its always 8 turns for Guerrilla ops and 12 turns for council missions regardless of the size of the map or mission type. so from a mechanics standpoint, sometimes its alot more difficult, and theres no thing for it.

its like all holes of golf are par 3 regardless of whether or not its 100 yds or 1000 yds to the hole.

1. Detection or not has nothing to do with the time limit set. Maybe I am missing the example here
2. What I do in cases like this is distract with one soldier away from the target while another sneaks in a accomplishes it. The enemy tends to charge the battle scene. so if your party is engaged in one area. They will move from the protected target to attack.
What you can do is as your party is engaging, keep backing off into overwatch, as they charge your getting shots at them and they are pulling away from the target spot were a rogue or hidden type unit can get to undetected and untouched. Once you accoumplish the task you can regroup to leave. What you don't want to do is slowly pull forward. Some players make the mistake of run and gunning the toughest enemy far from the attack area and runs into a nother group then he is surrounded.
@ Arasube- Again I disagree. It is how you use those strategic elements that allow you to overcome timed missions. Running forward is always a bad idea. Think of it this way if you face lets say 7 enemy units with an 8 turn timer. Thoe seven are in groups between you and your goal. Let's say you take 4 with one rogue or concealed type unit. The concealed unit has bonuses for being alone and concealed. What many do wrong is move the four up engaging 3 enemies, kill them, then move up, kill another 3, then the last two in a sort of ladder effect. If one of your units goes up too far. They can expose the next three too soon and soon your in a long squirmish 4 vs 6, then 4 vs 7 and you lose time and fail.
What I do is move my three up, but make the concealed rogue circle to the target away from the batte. As the seven units move towards the squirmish. They leave the target alone, free for you to reach your goal. I make sure before I go to the goal that the turn before I set up my rescue call, since it takes three turns. If your 3 units are doing fine and now you have achieved your goal. You can either have the 4 finish them off or because the chopper will appear much sooner than any reenforcements come. I can have my four leave regardless of the enemy still left. Give this tactic a try

[Jaxom]

Originally posted by red255:

the issue I have with timers is well.

1) from a role play standard, why are they setting the thing to blow up if my squad hasn't been detected yet? Obviously the big ass skyranger plane didn't make a stealth landing but they never mention that. My guys are concealed, why the hell are they blowing the target up?

2.) it doesn't vary. its always 8 turns for Guerrilla ops and 12 turns for council missions regardless of the size of the map or mission type. so from a mechanics standpoint, sometimes its alot more difficult, and theres no thing for it.

its like all holes of golf are par 3 regardless of whether or not its 100 yds or 1000 yds to the hole.

This - If timers were based on the mission and changed with each different objective it would be one thing, but sadly they dont. Best thing I ever did was disable them.

[Supa]

no timers = move slowly and spam overwatch, cant lose
timers = you have to take risks and you can lose

Peopel just want to autowin every game with no effort.

[Arasine]

Originally posted by Supa:

no timers = move slowly and spam overwatch, cant lose
timers = you have to take risks and you can lose

Peopel just want to autowin every game with no effort.

Thats far too simplistic and just plain wrong. Overwatch spam is far from an autowin.

People dont want the result of a tactical turn based mission to depend 99% on RNG, which turn timers do to some of the missions. Turn timers also remove most of the tools we have to approach enemies, leaving only running forward every turn and hoping the RNG doesnt decide we lost. With no timers we can actually form plans and go about controlling the characters as we want, not being forced to run and pray every turn..

[Supa]

WIthout turn timers you can just slowly setup ultimate ambushes and have unloseable fights once you trigger the pod... its dum cheesing and no tactics. Besides XCOM is supposed to be about risk management but if you are given infinite time window you can just eliminate all the risks.

[Arasine]

Originally posted by Supa:

WIthout turn timers you can just slowly setup ultimate ambushes and have unloseable fights once you trigger the pod... its dum cheesing and no tactics. Besides XCOM is supposed to be about risk management but if you are given infinite time window you can just eliminate all the risks.

Thats entirely one sided and untrue. No ambush is perfect, shots miss, spec abilities get used up, some enemies have more HP than overwatch attacks can wipe in a single turn. The choice is between your preference : No tactical choices avalible to the player, Run and Pray. Or my preference : Any tactic you can think of is avalible to the player, no need to Pray if you are smart enough.
Try to think of all the things which are taken away from your control on a turn based mission..
No Ambushes, No stealth, No Kiting, No Going around spotted pods, No leading into traps, Nothing whatsoever to do tactically except run toward the objective and see if the game decided you won or the aliens. Its stupid.
Risk management is only valid if there is choice between two of more things, with turns ticking you have no choice other than to run forward so its senseless to claim you are managing anything.

[kingts]

Originally posted by Arasine:

Originally posted by Supa:

WIthout turn timers you can just slowly setup ultimate ambushes and have unloseable fights once you trigger the pod... its dum cheesing and no tactics. Besides XCOM is supposed to be about risk management but if you are given infinite time window you can just eliminate all the risks.

Thats entirely one sided and untrue. No ambush is perfect, shots miss, spec abilities get used up, some enemies have more HP than overwatch attacks can wipe in a single turn. The choice is between your preference : No tactical choices avalible to the player, Run and Pray. Or my preference : Any tactic you can think of is avalible to the player, no need to Pray if you are smart enough.
Try to think of all the things which are taken away from your control on a turn based mission..
No Ambushes, No stealth, No Kiting, No Going around spotted pods, No leading into traps, Nothing whatsoever to do tactically except run toward the objective and see if the game decided you won or the aliens. Its stupid.
Risk management is only valid if there is choice between two of more things, with turns ticking you have no choice other than to run forward so its senseless to claim you are managing anything.

Your proving his point. It is not suppose to be perfect. Your choices in any tactical game should have consequences. Period, or don't play.
Risk management is not even a valid topic. Gee there is risk let me make sure there is none. What nonsense is that?

TIMERS are objectinve settings. A simple tactical turn base mechanic around forever in many games. You have to manage the scenario. Anything you do for the first time will have cost, you learn and adapt. I don't know what setting you play, but most are extremely easy to do.
You don't like TIMERS fine, many will agree with you but don't make up a terrible reason as to why not to have them. As I explained above it is also how you set up your men, how you move. Are you utilizing their strengths and weaknesses. Are you putting them in proper squad placements. How they are equipped. All play into it as well.
IF your not sure how to do the different TIMER missions, learn, there are videos and hints on what to do to better succeed. However, I am not sure what you want the end result to be. Go through the game untouched with all your men intact? Good Luck

[Arasine]

Originally posted by kingts:

Originally posted by Arasine:

Thats entirely one sided and untrue. No ambush is perfect, shots miss, spec abilities get used up, some enemies have more HP than overwatch attacks can wipe in a single turn. The choice is between your preference : No tactical choices avalible to the player, Run and Pray. Or my preference : Any tactic you can think of is avalible to the player, no need to Pray if you are smart enough.
Try to think of all the things which are taken away from your control on a turn based mission..
No Ambushes, No stealth, No Kiting, No Going around spotted pods, No leading into traps, Nothing whatsoever to do tactically except run toward the objective and see if the game decided you won or the aliens. Its stupid.
Risk management is only valid if there is choice between two of more things, with turns ticking you have no choice other than to run forward so its senseless to claim you are managing anything.

Your proving his point. It is not suppose to be perfect. Your choices in any tactical game should have consequences. Period, or don't play.
Risk management is not even a valid topic. Gee there is risk let me make sure there is none. What nonsense is that?

TIMERS are objectinve settings. A simple tactical turn base mechanic around forever in many games. You have to manage the scenario. Anything you do for the first time will have cost, you learn and adapt. I don't know what setting you play, but most are extremely easy to do.
You don't like TIMERS fine, many will agree with you but don't make up a terrible reason as to why not to have them. As I explained above it is also how you set up your men, how you move. Are you utilizing their strengths and weaknesses. Are you putting them in proper squad placements. How they are equipped. All play into it as well.
IF your not sure how to do the different TIMER missions, learn, there are videos and hints on what to do to better succeed. However, I am not sure what you want the end result to be. Go through the game untouched with all your men intact? Good Luck

You're entitled to your opinion even when you're clearly wrong.
Im not going over the blatantly obvious again as it obviously goes over your head. So in short ; IF you reduce the number of tactics which will result in a possible win from a game, you arent adding anything to it you are taking away. Missions with a short timer mean you as a player have to move forward every turn or fail. The game has taken the descision away from you.

I have no problem completing the timer missions, but not due to skill all due to good RNG. There is literally nothing to those missons other than run to the best cover you can every turn and see what the game decides.

All the attempts ive read to justify the timers, your included, say something like you just said along the lines of "utilize your men" when the whole problem is you cant utilize anyone for anything other than moving forward and hoping not to me shot.
Anyhow, im out of this thread now. Each to their own to enjoy the game for whatever reason.