Gatecrasher: Enmies return fire on first ambush move?

[Flambeau200061]

Don't know if this is a feature of ABA (A better Advent), but recently - since I installed ABA - ambushes got significantly more risky. Previously it worked liked this: Set up three rookies/soldiers on overwatch, one fires/throws grenade, enemies scatter and go for cover, the remaining three rookies fire and if everything goes well, the pod is down.
Now however, after my first action, the buggers often don't move - thus they don't trigger an overwatch shot - but decide to stand and fire. And my boys and girls on the rooftops in half cover get the worst of it. Guess I have to rethink my tactics, just want to know if this is a feature of ABA or just Legendary difficulty. Played Legendary before and didn't notice this behaviour in troopers, just some mechs.

[Player 2]

must be mod relate.

enemy will do overwatch or take cover (mostly) when got revealed in player turn. as far as i know they only take a shoot if got revealed by flanked soldier in their turn.

[Eggy]

As a counter to people using overwatch too much it was atltered so that there are multiple things that enemies can do if revealed on a player turn. This includes but is not limited to run to cover, hunker down, panic and also just take a shot.

I have not looked at the code but it is possible that on higher difficultys these chances are altered.

Its also possible that ABA alters these chances even more.

[Flambeau200061]

Originally posted by Eggy:

As a counter to people using overwatch too much it was atltered so that there are multiple things that enemies can do if revealed on a player turn. This includes but is not limited to run to cover, hunker down, panic and also just take a shot.

I have not looked at the code but it is possible that on higher difficultys these chances are altered.

Its also possible that ABA alters these chances even more.

I suspect it's due to ABA, but I'm not quite sure. I didn't notice it as much in my previous Legendary campaigns - before installing ABA - except for some Mechs which would stand still and go on overwatch instead of running or - in a few cases - fire their rockets. Troopers, sectoids etc. would always run for cover.

[Aranador]

even without mods, if you have a flanked soldier, the AI may, and often will, choose to shoot that soldier, and of course usually critting it and killing it. This is XCOM, after all.

[Flambeau200061]

Originally posted by Aranador:

even without mods, if you have a flanked soldier, the AI may, and often will, choose to shoot that soldier, and of course usually critting it and killing it. This is XCOM, after all.

Non of my soldiers were flanked here. What I mean is specifically the well known first ambush - as in Gatecrasher - when your squad is still in concealment, you set up your ambush - mostly everyone on a rooftop or behind full cover, first enemy pod in sight, three soldiers on overwatch and one triggering the ambush/enemy reaction by shooting. If you do it right, no one in your squad will be in a position to be flanked in this situation. Squad is revealed by the first shot and usually the enemy runs for cover and your ambush(overwatch triggers. What has changed is that some enemies will stand in the open and return fire instead of moving. So no overwatch shots here, but on the contrary my squad is at risk as high ground means half cover (usually) and Advent has the better shots early game. So overwatch ambush has become a far more risky tactic.

[talemore]

It's a normal feature for sectoids. They're the only ones who you can't ambush overwatch without a chance the sectoid won't shoot the soldier standing in overwatch. Breaking concealment with overwatch is likely the worse action you can make. Overwatch is mostly only useful when you not using cover. If you do use cover you have better actions like hunker down or shoot. Ideas shouldn't be like this where the only reason is to annoy the player by finding ways to make the game a chore. Some mechanics works for certain players. Overwatch isn't much of use since it has been on purpose reduced in hitchance and you rather take a normal shot at a guy in cover than using overwatch since the overall hitchance is higher. This feature is only added because some don't like the design of the game and don't want to make it possible to walk forward in overwatch. In many cases, because of this dislike for the mechanic the best option is to do nothing by walking forward and run to the closest cover and end the turn. Most of the time if you not going to kill something you may as well end the turn since gambling on overwatch shooting in the foot and I imagine that's what these soldiers do when they shoot their own team members in overwatch when panicking. It's one of many reasons why overwatch used for ambush is bad since if one gets shot them can all start to panicking and start shooting each other.

[gimmethegepgun]

Originally posted by talemore:

It's a normal feature for sectoids. They're the only ones who you can't ambush overwatch without a chance the sectoid won't shoot the soldier standing in overwatch.

No they don't. They always move, just like everything else except Advanced MECs.

Overwatch isn't much of use since it has been on purpose reduced in hitchance and you rather take a normal shot at a guy in cover than using overwatch since the overall hitchance is higher.

Concealed overwatch has no hit chance penalty.

Most of the time if you not going to kill something you may as well end the turn since gambling on overwatch shooting in the foot and I imagine that's what these soldiers do when they shoot their own team members in overwatch when panicking. It's one of many reasons why overwatch used for ambush is bad since if one gets shot them can all start to panicking and start shooting each other.

Panicking and shooting each other has nothing to do with overwatch.


As to OP, that's something from ABA. Normal behavior is that nothing will ever attack when first revealed if revealed on your turn, and only a few enemies will overwatch. Everything else will move. If you lose concealment on THEIR turn due to someone getting flanked then they have a chance to shoot at you instead of running to cover.

[Flambeau200061]

Originally posted by gimmethegepgun:

... As to OP, that's something from ABA. Normal behavior is that nothing will ever attack when first revealed if revealed on your turn, and only a few enemies will overwatch. Everything else will move. If you lose concealment on THEIR turn due to someone getting flanked then they have a chance to shoot at you instead of running to cover.

Thought as much, thanks for the confirmation.