Pod grouping

[Infinite Monkeys]

So, playing Legendary. I seldom have problems in this game, but there are situations which I just don't have good tactical solutions for. Namely: pod grouping. This is a problem that pops up around mid game for me. For some reason, on very hard missions, pods are not only more numerous (which is expected) but also placed in extreme proximity to one another and not patrolling. I have been curious about this behaviour and so I employed a reaper to study it. It's more common on VIP extraction missions, but it also occurs frequently on neutralise field commander missions.

I don't know if the pods spawn in the positions they're in, or if they move there, but at some missions, all pods seem to be in the same place. Usually around the objective. This means that I have to activate 4-5 pods at the same time, which can be overwhelming even late game. So far I have solved this by training sparks early game since several sparks together work inversely to normal troops (that is: the more troops engaged at the same time, the better).

But this has become tedious. While I do like sparks, it's a bit boring to just repeat the same tactical choice over and over on VIP extraction missions and others that seem to risk the pod grouping problem.

So how do you solve such situations, if not by using sparks? 4-5 pods all hanging around the mission objective and not patrolling the map?

[Commander Gorda]

You can just pull the pod of your Choice with a squadsight sniper. Concealed scout as spotter for the sniper.

[Messsucher]

PSI operative.

[Mhblis]

Explosives. Lots and lots of explosives and aoe attacks.

As youve said its almost like they are defending the objectives. /s

But yes by that stage of the game most of my soldiers have some ability that allows for dealing damage to more than one target.

[Player 2]

just take cover and bring some flashbang

[Eggy]

Explosives, if possible stacked and dropped to trigger extra explosions.
That PSI skill that lets you blow up enemy explosives is quite good for this scenario.

Mind Control - something big like an andromedon. Run it into them and smash as much as possible. You can then pick off the low HP stuff of use explosives to mop up the rest.

A templar that is well specced. Has the AOE skills and can reflect/deflect some damage.

A ranger that can move in kill stuff and then move back into cover or just stand there (is immune to one shot) and you have stacked dodge on.

[Gregorovitch]

Also playing legendary I employed a few tactics in this situation following careful scouting of the situation with Reaper and positioning of the rest of team out of LoS:

1. Big Boom using claymore + grenade on big group (i.e preverably more then one pod co-located) if sufficient to finish it off in one turn from good enough cover to negate the remaining pods' turn, sometimes assisted by Untouchable/Parry/Mimic Beacon in that respect.

2. For later game using Big Boom as in 1 but employing Serial with Sniper to clean up and laying overwatch trap from deep cover to cordially greet the remaining pods turn.

3. Variation on 2 would be using ranger Reaper ability instead of Sniper/Serial + Untouchable/Parry/Mimic Beacon to negate remaining pods turn.

4. Reaper spot + Sniper/Squadsight pull shot from deep cover on one pod at a time.

5. Deep cover pull. This involves setting up out of LoS and sending one soldier forward to pull (hopefully) one pod in single blue move such that they can immediately retreat out of LoS again. This confuses the enemy since they can't actually see any of your soldiers and can blunder into your kill zone and overwatch trap in dribs and drabs on double moves.

[red255]

Can we just use explosives? how close are the pods to each other? I've had pods patrol into each other and took them out with some nasty bombs.

basically run and gun and war suits and salvo. your grenadier can dump out 3 nukes. more with a soldier bond. but thats pointless just bring more grenadiers instead of using additional actions.

give me a screenshot. I'm not sure I get your tactical situation.

[Abrakadabra]

If they are hard on top of each other they're great targets for explosives or frost bombs. If multiple pods are rather close but not exactly on top of each other, then there are usually at least some spots that allow you to trigger only one pod and you can take it out from that position without moving so you dont pull the rest.

Pods might still move towards you right after you killed one pod and you might still have to deal with multiple pods. Sometimes its also a good idea to gtfo.

[Infinite Monkeys]

Can't give screenshots because I'm not referring to a single scenario.

The situations I'm referring to is almost invariably where 4 or all 5 pods are standing about the same area. Pod grouping happens on all missions. It's not intentional, but sometimes two pods are activated at once. The situations I'm referring to are special because either all pods are at the same place, or most of the pods are at the same place, and they are not patrolling, which is unusual. Patrol routes often make pods cross one another's paths, and if you've tried to stealth the mission for some reason you will also have problems since the AI tries to put the pods between you and the objective.

But the situations I'm talking about are not similar. The scenario can go something like this:

Council evac mission. I traverse the map without meeting a single pod. No resistance at all. Finally I arrive at the evac area, and 5 pods are standing there, spread out over an open area. Late game, this can mean 2 sectopods, 2 andromedons, 3 archons, a gatekeeper and any number of elite units. If I have brought 6 late game sparks these are all irrelevant as no force the enemy can field can defeat 18 actions of which 6 are heavy weapons, but if I have brought 6 human soldiers, I find that opposition a lot harder. Sometimes I lose people to it. That is significant for me considering I almost never lose any people during the first months when the game is hardest, or early mid-game when mag and plate has just finished.

Hence why I ask for advice. I already employ lots of explosives, and will continue to do so. I do not rely on hero classes since I sometimes I have to complete council missions and alike without them, so building a strategy around hero classes is probably not something I will do (but I am still grateful for the advice). But a serial sharpshooter, or even a bunch of soldiers with death from above and wraith armors could potentially do a lot of difference.

I think I need to focus a lot more on AOE attacks than previously. I prefer to only use grenades as cover removers, but with large numbers of enemies, perhaps considering them as a regular offensive measure is appropriate.

[Abrakadabra]

Originally posted by Anoxic event:

Can't give screenshots because I'm not referring to a single scenario.

The situations I'm referring to is almost invariably where 4 or all 5 pods are standing about the same area. Pod grouping happens on all missions. It's not intentional, but sometimes two pods are activated at once. The situations I'm referring to are special because either all pods are at the same place, or most of the pods are at the same place, and they are not patrolling, which is unusual. Patrol routes often make pods cross one another's paths, and if you've tried to stealth the mission for some reason you will also have problems since the AI tries to put the pods between you and the objective.

But the situations I'm talking about are not similar. The scenario can go something like this:

Council evac mission. I traverse the map without meeting a single pod. No resistance at all. Finally I arrive at the evac area, and 5 pods are standing there, spread out over an open area. Late game, this can mean 2 sectopods, 2 andromedons, 3 archons, a gatekeeper and any number of elite units. If I have brought 6 late game sparks these are all irrelevant as no force the enemy can field can defeat 18 actions of which 6 are heavy weapons, but if I have brought 6 human soldiers, I find that opposition a lot harder. Sometimes I lose people to it. That is significant for me considering I almost never lose any people during the first months when the game is hardest, or early mid-game when mag and plate has just finished.

Hence why I ask for advice. I already employ lots of explosives, and will continue to do so. I do not rely on hero classes since I sometimes I have to complete council missions and alike without them, so building a strategy around hero classes is probably not something I will do (but I am still grateful for the advice). But a serial sharpshooter, or even a bunch of soldiers with death from above and wraith armors could potentially do a lot of difference.

I think I need to focus a lot more on AOE attacks than previously. I prefer to only use grenades as cover removers, but with large numbers of enemies, perhaps considering them as a regular offensive measure is appropriate.

Do you use any ai mods?

I think I had more pods right on top of each other in some scenarios (like you described) before I used the ABA mods. A better advent, a better campaign and the rest. Specially a better advent.

Those pods do random ♥♥♥♥ sometimes too when you get those mods. They surprise you, suddenly they yellow move and move much further than usual in their turn which puts your scouts at risk. I like it though.

but im not sure that pods on top of each other have anyhting to do with ai mods. Just a feeling that I have less of that now ever since I used the above mentioned mods. I remember that I was stuck at first when I started to play with abc+. I had 2 or even 3 pods on top of the objective with an early squad of 5. (started with 5 to go up to 7). Thats 10 or 15 enemies that sometimes waited right on top of each other and I lost a number of tries and didnt know how to deal with it.

But as I said, even if that happens you have options. Usually youll find some vector that provides vision on only one pod or one member of a pod and you can pull the pod away by activating it and killing it from where you stand. Claymore and frost bomb as well as remote start work pretty well most of the time.

If you see that in every other mission though, that multiple pods are clumped up and dont even move anymore after only a few turns, then theres definitely something wrong.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by Anoxic event:

The situations I'm referring to is almost invariably where 4 or all 5 pods are standing about the same area.

Dunno if this is similar situation to yours but.....

I got one such mission in my game, it was a relay protection mission with a gatekeeper shooting the relay. The gatekeeper was the only really big unit there but there were two shield bearers, four elite troops and officers, two mutons and IIIRC three spectres, probably forgotten some (oh yeah, a couple of elite stun lancers).

The thing was the relay was in a building completely isolated across a very big open square - no way to approach it with full team to get the drop on them. All enemy units located by the target relay. As this was my first legend game I wasn't playing ironman and since I thought this situation was unfair I reloaded this a couple of times to figure out how to do it after getting wrecked first attempt. The biggest problem was I had no answer to the spectres in this scenario as a couple of shadowbounds equalled certain death in that situation.

The only thing I found worked was the sniper pull strategy. I kept everyone back out of LoS (by virtue of distance) except the Reaper and sniped one the nearest unit. The unit's pod activated and advanced towards my position but the other pods didn't. Having killed the the pod but holding position back out of LoS of the rest, it I repeated the procedure with the next nearest enemy and it's pod.

With that second pod dealt with and the nearest enemies off the board it was possible to advance the team out of LoS to a position roughly one blue move + grenade range of the gatekeeper and it's remaining adds. Thus I was able to get a claymore + grenade opener on it and finished the mission. The relay only had 4 HP left I might add.

That was the second hardest mission of my game. I felt it was unfair to expect to do that blind first attempt. Virtually impossible.

The hardest was a similar scenario on a map I think came from a map mod I had running which was had a very complex, tall and huge industrial building in which my rescue target was guarded by three pods led by a sectopod. The big problem here was LoS though, which I thought was bugged to hell on this map, so it's not really relevant to your question I don't think.

[crayno]

About the pods not moving. I'm still not sure how that works. I had a concealed Ranger waiting for several turns and the pod didn't move, but when my unconcealed soldiers arrived ( Still out of visible range, so not activating the pod) the pod started to move.
This might be a coincidence but I don't think so because the Ranger had waited for more than 5 turns already.
If someone knows this for sure I'd definitely be interested to know.