(WOTC) Do SPARKs have the ability to learn all of their skills using points like other classes or are they stuck with the mutual options?

[H3avy]

Finally got a SPARK in WOTC and had to make a choice between melee and heavy weapon damage (2nd skill). I chose the heavy weapons one, thinking that I could just use my existing xcom points to purchase the skill, but as far as I can tell SPARKS cant use the skill training facility to purchase other skills. Not sure if im missing something or its just that the SPARK cannot gain more skills using points.

[JaegerBane]

SPARKs can't use ability points. They're similar to Psi Operatives in that regard.

They can still earn them for XCOM though via flanks/ambushes etc.

[Eyal]

The notable change in SPARKs in WoTC is that they can now use weapon mods, it makes them very powerful actually.

[easytarget]

Very powerful being the part of the above sentence that's open to wide interpretation including the inverse conclusion they're in fact very powerless, and late campaign pretty much a complete joke when viewed against any other unit option available to you.

[Eyal]

Sure if you're talking about farming AP and stats on covert ops for months on end then it's very true, but before that, during early game to the start of late game, I find them very very VERY useful (especially now that now I'm doing a Beta Strike run).
Of course, to each his own.

[JaegerBane]

Originally posted by easytarget:

Very powerful being the part of the above sentence that's open to wide interpretation including the inverse conclusion they're in fact very powerless, and late campaign pretty much a complete joke when viewed against any other unit option available to you.

This argument plainly doesn't make any sense. The weapon mods fixed every issue the Autocannon class has so at worst, it would be a redundant upgrade.

I can understand (though not necessarily agree) with the argument that they don't bring anything to the table that you can't compensate for or replicate elsewhere but that's literally true of every class in the game. But it sounds like you're actually going further than that and trying to claim they're useless in every scenario, which is clearly daft. The fact they're immune to fatigue alone sinks that idea.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

What personally make them useless for me is the fact that you need to spend so much resource either building one or waiting forever to get one repaired...

[Eyal]

But you don't really need to wait to have them repaired. The nice thing about them is that you can deploy them while they're wounded, and they don't get tired, so they're always good for filling in slots.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

Why would I deploy them half wounded knowing they're likely to get hafl wounded again (and thus die)?

[Eyal]

Well that's the nice thing about XCOM, since I can see your play style is radically different than mine on how to use SPARKs in combat. Mine don't really take all that much damage usually, only if things went really really bad, or I got caught in a very awkward position.
But I know some playstyles just rush them forward to tank everything and blow everything to hell, I guess it's effective too.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

I have no clue why I'd take a spark with me if it wasn't just for tanking and making sure my real squaddies don't get hurt/killed. After all, the Spark can't take cover and can provide cover... It is just a giant tower shooting at people.

[Eyal]

Well, several things that I find them good for. First they can remote hack which is a must on legend difficulty on timed hack missions (Well, a little less crucial on WoTC I admit) and they're generally better than a specialist imo.

Overdrive is a very powerful ambush opener, and since taking high ground is very simple with them, they can wipe entire pods when opening with a heavy weapon and taking 2 additional shots, or just taking 3 shots. They can also shred, and since they very easily take high ground, can usually actually apply it unlike the grenadier (And if you were unlucky with getting a shredder on another class in the training center). His base weapon is quite powerful as well.

And for the tanking purposes, he's a great scout with hunter protocol and immunity to chryssalid poison, and he's also great for getting in the chosen faces since he can't be dazed or MCed.

With weapon mods, lack of ammunition isn't a big deal anymore, and combine overdrive with hair trigger or hunter protocol with a repeater and he is more than just a bullet sponge imo.
All these things help my squad destroy pods right on encountering them, which is why getting the SPARK damaged is just if things go very unlucky.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

This is all nice and good but... As already said in this thread, there is nothing there which can't already be done better.

For example, I'd rather have a specialist hack every single time I need it just because of the chance to get an increase to his hack stack via the event which provide it.

Another example, why would I bother trying to do an ambush with a spark since they're going to be seen anyways? They can't take cover, remember? If I use any other unit and try to set up an ambush they'll keep their cloak even if the enemy "radar" range go over them. You can't do that with a Spark at all.

I could just go on and on.

The only and I really mean it by saying only saving grace for the Spark is its usefulness as a tank. As I already said, it take so much frigging time to get one repaired that even that is kind of pointless.

[JaegerBane]

Originally posted by Eagle_of_Fire:

This is all nice and good but... As already said in this thread, there is nothing there which can't already be done better.

For example, I'd rather have a specialist hack every single time I need it just because of the chance to get an increase to his hack stack via the event which provide it.

Another example, why would I bother trying to do an ambush with a spark since they're going to be seen anyways? They can't take cover, remember? If I use any other unit and try to set up an ambush they'll keep their cloak even if the enemy "radar" range go over them. You can't do that with a Spark at all.

I could just go on and on.

The only and I really mean it by saying only saving grace for the Spark is its usefulness as a tank. As I already said, it take so much frigging time to get one repaired that even that is kind of pointless.

To be fair I'd agree that stuff like the ranged hacks are realistically neither here nor there on SPARKs as it they don't have the score for this to ever be useful beyond emergencies, and they only really work well as tanks if you specifically build out Colonel-level SPARKs for that purpose with Sacrifice et al.

On the other hand you're acting like you can't figure out the worth of a unit that doesn't have to use cover, effectively has a built-in mind shield and hazmat vest, is mobile enough to almost always be making flanking and height-advantage shots, can self heal and packs shredding, free actions and heavy weapons by default. The only way to have something that can literally do all this better is to hybridise the Grenadier and Ranger classes together and have them ignore the fatigue, which isn't actually possible. I don't know why you're having an issue keeping them concealed as they normally have more movement options barring anyone with a grappling hook.

They have their limits but frankly all classes do, and they only really fall behind your A-Squad as you'll never have enough ability points and PCSs to make every organic soldier superior.

[Eagle_of_Fire]

I don't need help to figure out their strenghts. I already posted about it. But it doesn't negate the flaring negative flaws inherent to this unit.

[Shinaa]

If they had the ability to learn more skills, it would be much better, in fact I think they would be on par with the other classes then.
It even makes much more sense for them to learn more skills, Shen could just programm the other skills into them!
It is quite the investment to build one and the upgrades for weapon and armor are also not cheap, they should be somewhat on par even in endgame.