The enemy knows where you are in concealment

[Prince Ian]

Here is my proof right here. Out of this entire map, all the enemies converge to my exact location in my corner of the map.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843107396

[Neo in Wonderland]

I was having the same feeling, I just didn't go into the hasle to check it for myself.
Game keeps crashing so you know

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Prince Ian:

Here is my proof right here. Out of this entire map, all the enemies converge to my exact location in my corner of the map.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843107396

They do know your possition Because how the AI is programmed if you get to close to the objective without running into any pods the ai Will know where you are and send a patrol there

at least that's how i've heard it works
though what you have just seemes like rotten luck

However that doesn't make concelment useless as it's main perpouse is for ambushes and making your way and making it easier to get to the objective as the first pod you run into won't be activated

And off topic why do you have balistic weaponry against mutons and MEC's?

[Prince Ian]

and btw that marks the end of my legendary ironman. It was a great run, but I definately learned a few rules and scientific laws. I'll share with you here.

1. Never ever uncover more than one enemy group. If you do then evac immediately
2. If you know you can't beat the timer completing the objective then evac after a few easy kills
3. Never trust concealment

[Prince Ian]

Originally posted by Jesterofgames7712:

Originally posted by Prince Ian:

Here is my proof right here. Out of this entire map, all the enemies converge to my exact location in my corner of the map.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=843107396

They do know your possition Because how the AI is programmed if you get to close to the objective without running into any pods the ai Will know where you are and send a patrol there

at least that's how i've heard it works
though what you have just seemes like rotten luck

However that doesn't make concelment useless as it's main perpouse is for ambushes and making your way and making it easier to get to the objective as the first pod you run into won't be activated

And off topic why do you have balistic weaponry against mutons and MEC's?

These were my last soldiers, and this was the best equipment I had. I'm playing on legendary ironman and i suffered some losses, very bad luck and sacrifices a long the way. Trust me I didnt even want to play this mission with what I had left but I figured to go out with a bang, which literally happened as you can see here.

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Prince Ian:

and btw that marks the end of my legendary ironman. It was a great run, but I definately learned a few rules and scientific laws. I'll share with you here.

1. Never ever uncover more than one enemy group. If you do then evac immediately
2. If you know you can't beat the timer completing the objective then evac after a few easy kills
3. Never trust concealment

1. That is quite litterally the main rule of X-com Though it's not like it's impossible to beat the map if you activate every alien at once you just need to get lucky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq9htbbUgYw&index=12&list=PLXctaw5JGF4LcidFVdkQMV1tc2DfC8x3D
Though at end game you can quite easily stomp every alien on the map at once.
2. I mean i've never not beaten the timer even when activating every pod at once near the end game
i still obliderated them with time to spare
3. i mean it's still a usefule tool if you use it right

[Pawnman]

You know, for once... one of your posts is actually true! *grand applause*

But this system is in the game by intended design. If you're familiar with Beaglerush he commented on this system by calling it "Line-Of-Play" (LOP) which tbh is a really nice term for it!

The way it works: The game draws an invisible line between the center point of your squad and the objective, which can be the "Line" portion of LOP. This line somewhat determines the enemy pod placement on the map. I'm not entirely sure how it does this but the basic premise of it is the further away your squad is from an objective the more spread out enemy pods will be, but the closer you are to the objective the more focused the pods will be on the objective. This is why it is impossible (or very nearly so) in this game to stealth guerrilla ops / council missions because any pods that you skip will just end up kind of dragging behind you the closer you get to the objective.

The devs themselves have said in interviews that they never intended the concealment mechanic to be a means to stealth your way threw missions and thus never fighting the enemy! Xcom 2 was still designed to be primarily an action game! So I imagine that this system is in place to help create an experience for the player by smoothing out Pod placement as to not have either a predictable pod placement, which Xcom EU/EW suffered from (I mean, the pods placements in EW could be memorized on many occasions) or have a LW EW experience where the random nature of Pods could end up having the entire map is a small area! Which was always horrifying.

But unfortunately for some people, this experience ends up being; they attempt to stealth there way through the map passing pods in concealment, only to end up having to activate the entire map because there to close to the objective at this point when they break concealment.

So yes, you're meant to use your concealment as a means to getting the drop on the first pod you encounter, because using it otherwise tends to do more harm then good.

[Pawnman]

Originally posted by Jesterofgames7712:

However that doesn't make concealment useless as it's main perpouse is for ambushes and making your way and making it easier to get to the objective as the first pod you run into won't be activated

Exactly, as long as you use Concealment the way the Devs intended as an ambush mechanic (and I don't just mean overwatch everyone no, getting into superior positions is always good as well) it works very well for that matter.

But yea, for those players that vew concealment as a "Stealth" mechanic are unfortunately left in the dust... But as Jester said, it's not impossible to win a mission when you actiavte the whole map at once, it's just it does make it harder then it needs to be.

[Belhedler]

Hmm, I'm not too sure about that. They will converge should you do dash move while concealed, sure. But I never seen them doing anything else than patrolling when only doing single moves. Though refraining from dash moves is mainly only possible with True Concealment mod on timed missions. If you are patient enough you may even see pods moving far away from your position and objective (though I found that there is always at least one static pod at the objective or patrolling very closed to it)

[Prince Ian]

well since the devs are so hell bent on stacking the cards against you in every way possible. It would be nice if they could tell us how they want us to play the game. They dont want us to have any clever creativity at all.

Tell me Mr Jake Solomon, how do YOU want me to play your game sir? I'll follow your exact cookie cutter protocol on my next playthrough.

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Prince Ian:

well since the devs are so hell bent on stacking the cards against you in every way possible. It would be nice if they could tell us how they want us to play the game. They dont want us to have any clever creativity at all.

Tell me Mr Jake Solomon, how do YOU want me to play your game sir? I'll follow your exact cookie cutter protocol on my next playthrough.

I mean
It's not like having every card stacked against you is the point of Xcom

and there isn't exactly a cookie cutter protocal you do have free raing to do what you want
make mistakes and learn from them

[Pawnman]

Well, imho I don't think that this system takes away from the creativity of the game at all, I find concealment to be incredibly strong especially in the Phantom/conceal perks that basically allow you to take every engagement on your terms if you use it well enough!

Originally posted by Belhedler:

Hmm, I'm not too sure about that. They will converge should you do dash move while concealed, sure. But I never seen them doing anything else than patrolling when only doing single moves. Though refraining from dash moves is mainly only possible with True Concealment mod on timed missions. If you are patient enough you may even see pods moving far away from your position and objective (though I found that there is always at least one static pod at the objective or patrolling very closed to it)

I mean, there is pretty strong evidence that this system does exist! (Plus I've heard from people who mod the game extensively, but barring that) Haven't you ever wondered why the pod placement in this game is typically really clean?? (or smooth) Let's just take a Guerrilla op as an example taking the bare minimum of 3 pods; You start a good distance from the objective, there's usually a pod between you and the objective, another typically right around (guarding) the objective and the final pod is almost always behind the objective.

Another really good example is gatecrasher (on Legend), the first pod I almost always face I'd say 90% of the time, is the 3 troopers pod then followed by the sectoid/trooper pod & finally the officer pod. That's because the trooper pod is the one placed between you and the objective, the sectoid pod is the one guarding the objective & the officer pod is the one behind it.

[Prince Ian]

Originally posted by Pawnman:

Originally posted by Jesterofgames7712:

However that doesn't make concealment useless as it's main perpouse is for ambushes and making your way and making it easier to get to the objective as the first pod you run into won't be activated

Exactly, as long as you use Concealment the way the Devs intended as an ambush mechanic (and I don't just mean overwatch everyone no, getting into superior positions is always good as well) it works very well for that matter.

But yea, for those players that vew concealment as a "Stealth" mechanic are unfortunately left in the dust... But as Jester said, it's not impossible to win a mission when you actiavte the whole map at once, it's just it does make it harder then it needs to be.

apparently concealment just means concealed carry, since they can obviously still see your guys a mile away.

someone should make the conceal carry permit mod. Where you can walk around the entire map freely until you discharge your weapon.

[Belhedler]

@Pawnman I was mainly responding to OP when stating that "The enemy knows where you are in concealment". The placement sure is like you said, though using True Concealment you can do something quite different from what the game expected from you initialy. I mean I used few rounds to get into a large multi levels house which was at the center of the map and then triggered all pods at the same time. Well it was actually a bit harder than expected but man it was real fun.

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Prince Ian:

Originally posted by Pawnman:

Exactly, as long as you use Concealment the way the Devs intended as an ambush mechanic (and I don't just mean overwatch everyone no, getting into superior positions is always good as well) it works very well for that matter.

But yea, for those players that vew concealment as a "Stealth" mechanic are unfortunately left in the dust... But as Jester said, it's not impossible to win a mission when you actiavte the whole map at once, it's just it does make it harder then it needs to be.

apparently concealment just means concealed carry, since they can obviously still see your guys a mile away.

someone should make the conceal carry permit mod. Where you can walk around the entire map freely until you discharge your weapon.

that's basically the Shinobi from the Long war perk pack mod

Using 2 perks and the SMG from the LW SMG Pack you can quite litterally make the Enemy feild of vision the 4 tiles right beside them making it all but impossible for them to see your shinobi
And considering shinobi's get hunters instinct and serial
WELL Yeah
or you could give them a shot gun and again YEAH

plus they can Get a perk that let's them reconceal when ever they want

also the aliens can't see you in concealment they just know your general location

[Pawnman]

Originally posted by Prince Ian:

someone should make the conceal carry permit mod. Where you can walk around the entire map freely until you discharge your weapon.

I imagine somebody is working on this mod, I mean I know there are a lot of players who want concealment to be a stealth mechanic. I'm sure just like LW 2 & other big overhaul mods all it takes is time.

@Belhedler Ah, my mistake!
And to be clear I don't dislike the Line-Of-Play mechanic myself, I actually find that it certainly does cause some really good firefights when you activate multiple pods at once! But I do understand the otherside of it... wanting to add more stealth options to the game.