Long War 2 and EU Aim Rolls

[Ithuriel]

The base game has an element I'd almost consider a bug- dodge, hit, and critical rolls are all rolled simultaneously. This means, for instance, if you have a 15% crit chance and you take a shot with 15% chance to hit, any hit will automatically be a crit. Does anything get messed up running EU Aim Rolls, which separates hit/crit/dodge into separate rolls, with Long War 2?

[Zyrrashijn]

Read. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KYKP0J-c9vcksxLXBTUkFzdE0/view

[WATAMATE]

LW2 has quite different Aim Rolls.


basically all units have chance to dodge attacks by 20% (can change in option)


attacks with 50% hit, 50% crit

rolls 1 - 100

1 - 40 = Miss
41 - 60 = Dodge
61 - 100 = Hit


crit actually works 'rank up' results now, that means

Miss -> Dodge
Dodge -> Hit
Hit -> Crit


40% Miss -> 20% Miss / 20% Dodge
20% Dodge -> 10% Dodge / 10% Hit
40% Hit -> 20% hit / 20% Crit


Final result is 20% Miss, 30% Dodge, 30% Hit, 20% Crit

[Sunwave]

Sooo, if I understand correctly, it's 20% dodge, and OF THE REMAINING 80% CHANCE, the hit chance and miss chance will be calculated? So a 0% hit and 0% crit is 80%miss 20%dodge? And 100% hit is 20%dodge 80%hit?

That's just effed up. If this is really what it is, it's ridiculous. Hit/miss should be independent from anything else. Or at least the indicator should be the exact hit chance. I was looking forward to playing LW but this is just.... wow. Basically the game will lie to your face for every single shot in the game.

[sheep from hell]

Originally posted by Sunwave:

Sooo, if I understand correctly, it's 20% dodge, and OF THE REMAINING 80% CHANCE, the hit chance and miss chance will be calculated? So a 0% hit and 0% crit is 80%miss 20%dodge? And 100% hit is 20%dodge 80%hit?

That's just effed up. If this is really what it is, it's ridiculous. Hit/miss should be independent from anything else. Or at least the indicator should be the exact hit chance. I was looking forward to playing LW but this is just.... wow. Basically the game will lie to your face for every single shot in the game.

same as vanilla?

[Fringehunter7719]

Originally posted by fmsp1928:

LW2 has quite different Aim Rolls.


basically all units have chance to dodge attacks by 20% (can change in option)


attacks with 50% hit, 50% crit

rolls 1 - 100

1 - 40 = Miss
41 - 60 = Dodge
61 - 100 = Hit


crit actually works 'rank up' results now, that means

Miss -> Dodge
Dodge -> Hit
Hit -> Crit


40% Miss -> 20% Miss / 20% Dodge
20% Dodge -> 10% Dodge / 10% Hit
40% Hit -> 20% hit / 20% Crit


Final result is 20% Miss, 30% Dodge, 30% Hit, 20% Crit

Where did you get that info from?

[Archmage MC]

Originally posted by fmsp1928:

LW2 has quite different Aim Rolls.


basically all units have chance to dodge attacks by 20% (can change in option)


attacks with 50% hit, 50% crit

rolls 1 - 100

1 - 40 = Miss
41 - 60 = Dodge
61 - 100 = Hit


crit actually works 'rank up' results now, that means

Miss -> Dodge
Dodge -> Hit
Hit -> Crit


40% Miss -> 20% Miss / 20% Dodge
20% Dodge -> 10% Dodge / 10% Hit
40% Hit -> 20% hit / 20% Crit


Final result is 20% Miss, 30% Dodge, 30% Hit, 20% Crit

I'm pretty sure thats not true. The hit formula from what I see is this.

Hit, Miss, and Dodge are on the same roll. If you have 100 hit, you remove the Dodge chance

Crit is on a different roll and is factored in after you hit, as long as its not a dodge.

Either that or its vanilla XCOM 2. I'll know if its that if an alien crits when I get their aim to 1%.

[The Renderer]

Alright, what you guys posted is wrong. For one you are confusing/mixing dodge and graze and there are some additional mistakes.

Read this:
http://www.pavonisinteractive.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&p=24871#p24871

Basically you don't need the EU aim roll mod anymore since in Long War 2 the rolls for hits and crits are already separate.

So if you have a 70% hit chance and a 20% crit chance, there will first be a roll on hit:
0-60: hit
60-80: graze (can be turned off and values can changed in the options, default is +-10% of the hit chance)
80-100: miss

Then you have the roll on crit, which basically "promotes" your damage if successful:
0-20: crit if you had a hit above, normal if you had a graze above
20-100: no modification to the above

Third the target has a dodge roll (against the dodge stat), which basically "demotes" the damage if successful:
If successful against a crit: only normal damage
If successful against a normal: only graze
If successful against graze: miss

Note I did not actually test these, it's just what the developer said.

[Belhedler]

@The Renderer

Mhh then taking a <10% last chance shot is sure to miss. Overall, <30% shoot are likely to have little effect. Based on that, we could factor that OW while discovered will not be rewarded at all unless having high aim and/or OW specialist, due to aim penalty. On that note the downsizing of the scope which now not affects OW. Exit most of rookies too. Calls for a flanking creep, demoting any rookie with low mobility by the same occasion. This leads to taking risky moves due to irreductible covers which in turns leads to uncovering additional pods. Know I see why I failed my last (very short) campaign.

So if I sumarize, in the end you need either very high aim, which calls mainly for sniper (because targeting skill and innate high aim) or close combat, or cover removal. Problem is with the later grenades effect on cover has fallen by many now so the actual real choice left is cover destruction specialist - 2 classes overall. Yes we're going to creep for grenadeers again. Regarding squad capability, it sums up to very high aim or high aim and mobility isn't it? For the 'few' left overs, we'll say something else? Like support, suicide squad? Good to know.

[Sunwave]

Originally posted by sheep from hell:

Originally posted by Sunwave:

Sooo, if I understand correctly, it's 20% dodge, and OF THE REMAINING 80% CHANCE, the hit chance and miss chance will be calculated? So a 0% hit and 0% crit is 80%miss 20%dodge? And 100% hit is 20%dodge 80%hit?

That's just effed up. If this is really what it is, it's ridiculous. Hit/miss should be independent from anything else. Or at least the indicator should be the exact hit chance. I was looking forward to playing LW but this is just.... wow. Basically the game will lie to your face for every single shot in the game.

same as vanilla?

No, in vanilla, at leats the hit % is the actual hit %. Dodge/graze (same thing in vanilla) and crit are maybe a bit weird, but still included in that, since they're also hits. "partly" hit but still hit. So the % is correct.

So if you have a 70% hit chance and a 20% crit chance, there will first be a roll on hit:
0-60: hit
60-80: graze (can be turned off and values can changed in the options, default is +-10% of the hit chance)
80-100: miss

So the ACTUAL hit chance is 80% (60+20) yet it shows you it's 70%. Still an incomprehensible design choice.

[Kannarm]

All your fancy calculations aside... LW2 is (in it's current state) a game full of soldiers who failed StormTrooper school because their hit % was to low to quallify.

Seriously the amount of missed shots due to this mod is insane.. No wonder the Humans lost the war with soldiers like that :P

[schlockie]

Maybe you can help me. I am not able to play after the first mission. On the worl map there ist only the dealer. If i press the headquarter to let the time go, i am just able to change some adjustment. But how will the time go further? I am not ablet o do anything on the map.

[Belhedler]

Originally posted by Kannarm:

All your fancy calculations aside... LW2 is (in it's current state) a game full of soldiers who failed StormTrooper school because their hit % was to low to quallify.

Seriously the amount of missed shots due to this mod is insane.. No wonder the Humans lost the war with soldiers like that :P

If you rolled 58 aim based squad (like most of my team was on gatecrasher) then well yeah you're kind of doomed. I think the randomized stats do not fit here on starting missions. You should just deactivate the option all together from the menu, given that the randomized defense (but not displayed in tactical display...) is still here. I hate this stuff. I ended up being shot at the same trooper in cover again and again only because he had the lowest defense due tu innate -8 defense stat. Big dummy! I hope my other randomizer stats mod will work on that side.

[The Renderer]

Originally posted by Sunwave:

So if you have a 70% hit chance and a 20% crit chance, there will first be a roll on hit:
0-60: hit
60-80: graze (can be turned off and values can changed in the options, default is +-10% of the hit chance)
80-100: miss

So the ACTUAL hit chance is 80% (60+20) yet it shows you it's 70%. Still an incomprehensible design choice.

If you consider graze to be a hit, then yes. There are basically 3 ways to display it: Display the chance for a normal hit (60 in this case), the chance for any hit at all (80) or do it like they did. I don't actually see a benefit of any of these options over the others. You just have to pick one and go with it.
The current method makes the most sense to me. You have a percentage to hit but if you only barely do so (or barely miss), you get a graze instead. Seems fine.

Also, if you really have a big problem with it, just disable graze shots and you will get the exact hit percentage.

[The Renderer]

Originally posted by schlockie:

Maybe you can help me. I am not able to play after the first mission. On the worl map there ist only the dealer. If i press the headquarter to let the time go, i am just able to change some adjustment. But how will the time go further? I am not ablet o do anything on the map.

You have to click on the scan thing to the right of your HQ/Haven (on the global map).

[Belhedler]

They say Perfect Information works fine and sometimes has errors in the figures displayed but it is though to be a vanilla thing.