Metaphor: ReFantazio

Metaphor: ReFantazio

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Whiptail 12 OCT 2024 a las 9:17
Translation
Anyone know how the translation from Japanese is in this game? Is it the typical activist garbage or is it a real translation?
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Mostrando 31-45 de 49 comentarios
zero 15 OCT 2024 a las 15:04 
2
Publicado originalmente por Whiptail:
Most Japanese game developers aren't sipping tea with the Queen, so their English might be, shall we say, "adventurously approximate." They need translators, which means they're not exactly signing off on the English text with the precision of a laser surgeon.
that is one of the most narrow minded statements ive seen, ill be honest, you are assuming a large swath of exceedingly outlandish things happening rather then the simple occam's razor of it:

they hired people to translate into other languages, which they did because its their job, and then moved on.
Niras 15 OCT 2024 a las 15:08 
Publicado originalmente por Rogue:
Publicado originalmente por Whiptail:
It’s not outlandish at all, there are far too many examples of activists translating both games and anime movies.

Even the Japanese devs laugh at the Western stupidity.

I'm gonna be real with you, dog. I think this whole "activist translators are ruining games" conspiracy is pretty dumb because it just doesn't make any sense if you think about it logically.
It's might be uncommon but it happens, although in case of Atlus game's whoever is localising it's not given as much freedom as for e.g Katrina Leonoudakis' eng subs for Horimiya
I think ppl are too sensitive about differences in delivery of same message/point.

The way I see actual bad localisation and "activist translators are ruining games" is case of
Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes: https://deidetected.com/games/eiyuden-chronicle-hundred-heroes
Problems with eng localisation mostly comes down to localisation being treated as creative job rather than technical

There's youtuber - Japan Day Tripper retranslating older games: Valkyria Chronicles
I highly recommend watching: "Is Valkryia Chronicles 4 Translation Any Good? Part 16"
That's actual bad translation due to localiser inserting their own visions and opposite views
Rogue 15 OCT 2024 a las 16:45 
Kind of cringey that you would link anything from a source called "DEIdetected" but I want to have this conversation in good faith, so I checked out the article and honestly, it seems like a major overreaction. According to the source you provided, it's literally only a few instances where the translated text differs from whatever it says in Japanese on the right. I'm not fluent in Japanese, so for the sake of this conversation, I'm going to trust that it's accurate.

If that is the case, and this translator has indeed overstepped their bounds by inserting politics into the translation where there was none for a localization, why hasn't the developer corrected it? The simplest explanation would be either they approved of it, or don't think it's as big of a deal as some people here do.
Última edición por Rogue; 15 OCT 2024 a las 16:46
Tiasmoon 15 OCT 2024 a las 16:56 
Publicado originalmente por Rogue:
Publicado originalmente por Whiptail:
It’s not outlandish at all, there are far too many examples of activists translating both games and anime movies.

Even the Japanese devs laugh at the Western stupidity.

I'm gonna be real with you, dog. I think this whole "activist translators are ruining games" conspiracy is pretty dumb because it just doesn't make any sense if you think about it logically.

Calling it a conspiracy just doesnt make any sense when you think about it logically.
At this point there is simply too much circumstantial (or even straight up) evidence out there.

In hindsight, it also explains the translator wars that used to happen where on one side there was a lot of pretense, use of strawmanning and gaslighting to pretend that the localization and translation of Japanese media (in particular games) was done excellently and it 'couldnt be helped if some things were wrong sometimes'. Or how those that criticised them were all manner of bad person or unqualified to talk or hating for the sake of it. The same tactics their activist-kin have been using for years now in game journalism, TV (see hollywood/disney) and other industries.

Publicado originalmente por Rogue:
If that is the case, and this translator has indeed overstepped their bounds by inserting politics into the translation where there was none for a localization, why hasn't the developer corrected it? The simplest explanation would be either they approved of it, or don't think it's as big of a deal as some people here do.

The simplest explanations are that they are ignorant of this, or dont have the power to resist the activists.

From the many happenings in recent years we know that in the West atleast, the later very much applies. In case of Japan however, many devs dont have a good grasp of English and are very ignorant of international or English communities.
So they would likely rely on information given to them by these same translator/localizors.
DrkCntry 15 OCT 2024 a las 17:03 
2
So many people who don't have knowledge of the language sure think they know definitively something nefarious is happening while simultaneously stating that a country of people don't have a good grasp on the English language...
15 OCT 2024 a las 19:06 
there are liberties taken with some stuff.

an example in the first 5 minutes.

"The Elda tribe is already rare, so be careful, try not to get tangled up with them"

changed to.

"Wich means a dopey elda kid's gonna stick out like a sore thumb. Try to keep your head down okay?"

or
"...Hmm? Are you from aristocratic family? Why is someone here who should have no truble eating?"

into

"Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for velvet-swaddled lordlings. Why are you here?"

(not sure why steam made 1 word into a link, please ignore it)
Última edición por ; 15 OCT 2024 a las 19:08
zero 15 OCT 2024 a las 19:12 
3
Publicado originalmente por :
there are liberties taken with some stuff.

an example in the first 5 minutes.

"The Elda tribe is already rare, so be careful, try not to get tangled up with them"

changed to.

"Wich means a dopey elda kid's gonna stick out like a sore thumb. Try to keep your head down okay?"

or
"...Hmm? Are you from aristocratic family? Why is someone here who should have no truble eating?"

into

"Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for velvet-swaddled lordlings. Why are you here?"

(not sure why steam made 1 word into a link, please ignore it)
that is their job, afterall, it's not translating, its localization, to ensure it flows more naturally in the language, and to give it the intent that is lost in translation.

in the former, she makes it clear the elda are are piror to the warning, while also making it clear to stay out of troubles way

and the latter changes the tone to show the characters personality in a way a direct translation would be lacking, which is supported by the characters actions an hour or so later.
Última edición por zero; 15 OCT 2024 a las 19:12
Hael 15 OCT 2024 a las 19:24 
Publicado originalmente por zero:
that is their job, afterall, it's not translating, its localization, to ensure it flows more naturally in the language, and to give it the intent that is lost in translation.

in the former, she makes it clear the elda are are piror to the warning, while also making it clear to stay out of troubles way

and the latter changes the tone to show the characters personality in a way a direct translation would be lacking, which is supported by the characters actions an hour or so later.

(Generally) People understand a 1:1 literal translation isn't actually ideal.

However, the common issue I see with American translations and this has been a thing even back in the SNES era, is they seem to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ love adding buzz words. When not adding references and bazinga.

Game equivalent of "Wow, THAT just happened!"

I highly doubt it's going to ruin the game for me, I'm grabbing Metaphor end of the week and generally find Atlus to be a solid company. But "dopey" and "velvet-swaddled" in those examples don't feel like they're necessary to convey tone or personality. Could probably do without em.
zero 15 OCT 2024 a las 19:32 
Publicado originalmente por Hael:
Publicado originalmente por zero:
that is their job, afterall, it's not translating, its localization, to ensure it flows more naturally in the language, and to give it the intent that is lost in translation.

in the former, she makes it clear the elda are are piror to the warning, while also making it clear to stay out of troubles way

and the latter changes the tone to show the characters personality in a way a direct translation would be lacking, which is supported by the characters actions an hour or so later.

(Generally) People understand a 1:1 literal translation isn't actually ideal.

However, the common issue I see with American translations and this has been a thing even back in the SNES era, is they seem to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ love adding buzz words. When not adding references and bazinga.

Game equivalent of "Wow, THAT just happened!"

I highly doubt it's going to ruin the game for me, I'm grabbing Metaphor end of the week and generally find Atlus to be a solid company. But "dopey" and "velvet-swaddled" in those examples don't feel like they're necessary to convey tone or personality. Could probably do without em.
what "buzzwords" do you think were added?

cause if your examples are dopey, to show a character from nowhere, and velvet-sswaddled, which is just an older sounding 'silver spoon' bit, those aren't buzzwords and do help to show the characters respectively in a way that the direct translations would not do justice to
Hael 15 OCT 2024 a las 20:54 
Publicado originalmente por zero:
what "buzzwords" do you think were added?

cause if your examples are dopey, to show a character from nowhere, and velvet-sswaddled, which is just an older sounding 'silver spoon' bit, those aren't buzzwords and do help to show the characters respectively in a way that the direct translations would not do justice to

Those bits of "characterization" are unnecessary to convey their personality or mindset. They're words being added just to add words.

"Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for lordlings. Why are you here?" Not a direct translation, entirely understandable. Done.

"Which means an elda kid's gonna stick out like a sore thumb. Try to keep your head down okay?" Not a direct translation, entirely understandable. Done.

Both convey the exact same tone. They lost nothing in losing those words. It's superfluous fluff. Not end of the world but hardly "doing justice" to anything.
Canipa 15 OCT 2024 a las 22:00 
Publicado originalmente por Razer:
Publicado originalmente por Whiptail:
Anyone know how the translation from Japanese is in this game? Is it the typical activist garbage or is it a real translation?
From reading some of the topics here it's americanized pretty badly.

It is literally the opposite of Americanized. This is as British isles as it gets.
Canipa 15 OCT 2024 a las 22:13 
Publicado originalmente por :
there are liberties taken with some stuff.

an example in the first 5 minutes.

"The Elda tribe is already rare, so be careful, try not to get tangled up with them"

changed to.

"Wich means a dopey elda kid's gonna stick out like a sore thumb. Try to keep your head down okay?"

or
"...Hmm? Are you from aristocratic family? Why is someone here who should have no truble eating?"

into

"Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for velvet-swaddled lordlings. Why are you here?"

(not sure why steam made 1 word into a link, please ignore it)

The biggest mistake people make with these is thinking that the Google Translate version is the "original" and the final version is what it was "changed to." Translators are translating meaning, not the exact words. If you translate the exact words, devoid of tone, context, character, or (in the case of voice acted games) performance, you miss a lot and end up with a mistranslation. The most common mistranslations are the case of going overly literal and missing the meaning.

So the localization team has to tackle not just what the characters said but also why they said it. Why does the captain care that Strohl should have no trouble eating? Is it genuine curiosity? Clearly not. In fact, you later learn what faction he belongs to and why exactly he might have an issue with the current power structures.

Localization is about bringing a story to another language. Not just about conveying individual lines. A critique that's purely line-by-line misses a lot of context.

Publicado originalmente por Hael:
"Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for lordlings. Why are you here?" Not a direct translation, entirely understandable. Done.

Try reading the two lines out loud with the same tone as the captain. You lose something without the adjective and you're just kind of left with "Wait, why?"

"Velvet-swaddled" adapts the meaning behind the idea that he believes Strohl shouldn't be there. It also contrasts with who Strohl actually is.
Última edición por Canipa; 15 OCT 2024 a las 22:16
16 OCT 2024 a las 2:28 
Publicado originalmente por Canipa:
Publicado originalmente por :
there are liberties taken with some stuff.

an example in the first 5 minutes.

"The Elda tribe is already rare, so be careful, try not to get tangled up with them"

changed to.

"Wich means a dopey elda kid's gonna stick out like a sore thumb. Try to keep your head down okay?"

or
"...Hmm? Are you from aristocratic family? Why is someone here who should have no truble eating?"

into

"Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for velvet-swaddled lordlings. Why are you here?"

(not sure why steam made 1 word into a link, please ignore it)

The biggest mistake people make with these is thinking that the Google Translate version is the "original" and the final version is what it was "changed to." Translators are translating meaning, not the exact words. If you translate the exact words, devoid of tone, context, character, or (in the case of voice acted games) performance, you miss a lot and end up with a mistranslation. The most common mistranslations are the case of going overly literal and missing the meaning.

So the localization team has to tackle not just what the characters said but also why they said it. Why does the captain care that Strohl should have no trouble eating? Is it genuine curiosity? Clearly not. In fact, you later learn what faction he belongs to and why exactly he might have an issue with the current power structures.

Localization is about bringing a story to another language. Not just about conveying individual lines. A critique that's purely line-by-line misses a lot of context.

Publicado originalmente por Hael:
"Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for lordlings. Why are you here?" Not a direct translation, entirely understandable. Done.

Try reading the two lines out loud with the same tone as the captain. You lose something without the adjective and you're just kind of left with "Wait, why?"

"Velvet-swaddled" adapts the meaning behind the idea that he believes Strohl shouldn't be there. It also contrasts with who Strohl actually is.
i do understand it can't be 1:1 but i rather good translation that is understandable, as an example, neptunia games and fan retranslation, wich make the text be more in line with what they say.
Rogue 16 OCT 2024 a las 16:20 
Publicado originalmente por :
i do understand it can't be 1:1 but i rather good translation that is understandable, as an example, neptunia games and fan retranslation, wich make the text be more in line with what they say.

I have no problem understanding this line: "Hmph. A blueblood, are you? The army is no place for lordlings. Why are you here?"

What exactly is the problem you have with this line? How would a fan re-translation help in this situation?
DrkCntry 16 OCT 2024 a las 16:38 
Here's just some food for thought...

A Translators job is to translate text from one language to another. Example: おはようございます to "Good Morning".

A Localizers job is to translate text from one language to another while maintaining the purpose and flow from the original language to the new language. Example: おはようございます to "Good morning to you, sir"
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Publicado el: 12 OCT 2024 a las 9:17
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