A balanced look at your sim-racing options (IR/AC/RF1/RF2/Simbin)

[HariSeldon]

NOTE: My profile doesn't show that I own iRacing because I am a member directly via the website, not via Steam. Hopefully iRacing will give us Steam keys at some point so we can prove we're real!

First, I'll lay my cards on the table. I'm an enthusiastic but not especially talented sim-racer. I have raced on the Simbin games, RFactor 1, RFactor 2, Assetto Corsa and iRacing plus the usual Codemasters games (which are not my cup of tea tbh).

Simbin games (Race 07 etc) - Often in Steam sales for £5 or less
- Cheap and cheerful, very dated.
Tracks: Track layouts are a bit off in places but there's a good selection of them.
Cars: Physics are ok. Each car is different, I've had a blast with touring car racing.
Mods: Never really looked at modding this so can't comment
Offline: decent enough, AI is average (AI is never good).
Online: Good in a league but pick-up racing is hopeless as you'll not have the right track for most of what is running. If you want to race this, join a league.

RF1 - On Steam now/soon I think
- See simbin - only difference is..
Mods: There are tonnes, however sorting the wheat from the chaff is a challenge. Some are great but many are absolutely horrible. All free afaik.

RF2 - $43.99 + $12 per year or $84.99 perpetual license - not on Steam
- Tracks: The official ones are pretty good, not laser-scanned but the accuracy is about as good as you'll get without laser-scanning.
- Cars: The best physics out there for me. The dynamic track surface, realistic tyre model, having to actually look after your tyres, rain with drying line as cars clear the rain from the track surface, it's AMAZING.
- Mods: Similar to RF1 there are loads, but so many are hopeless. There are some very very good ones, but finding them is tricky. Mostly free bar the (excellent) payware URD cars.
- Offline: AI is the usual mediocre fare with cars clustering into a large blob, not spreading out as a real race does, and often struggling with modded content.
- Online: Pick-up racing is non-existent, and what there is is full of people crashing. Typically if 8 start, most will crash, those not battling for the lead will quit bored half way and only 2 will finish. Can't connect to most servers because you won't have the right mods, and the auto-downloader doesn't work because the server admins don't usually set that up right. League racing however is brilliant. RF2 is especially suited to endurance racing with tracks rubbering in, wet races with drying line, tyres that you have to manage properly, excellent damage model. RF2 is BRILLIANT.

Assetto Corsa - on Steam
- Tracks: Laser-scanned, thus brilliant. Nothing to fault with them.
- Cars: Feel a bit arcade with too much grip, lack of tyre management vs rf2 but I'd say 3rd best physics out there.
- Mods: As RF2, a mixed bag, but plenty of them. Mostly free bar the (excellent) payware URD cars.
- Offline: AI is poor, can't handle pit-stops so rules out long races.
- Online: See RF2.

IRacing - on Steam but cheaper elsewhere
- Tracks: Huge selection of laser-scanned tracks. A bit pricey. That said, you'll get your money's worth fighting for every last 10th of a second.
- Cars: A huge selection, physics not quite as good as RF2 but slightly better than AC.
- Mods: None. Think of iRacing as taking a more Apple approach where RF2 is more Android/Linux in philosophy. This isn't always bad as you get consistent quality of content and of course that locked-down environment makes cheating a non-issue.
- Offline: None.
- Online: Quite simply there's nothing like it. SR is a gentle nudge to keep people honest, and for the most part it works, while with iRating on the line people are fighting for position from start to finish, no quitting half way if the race is a bit dull and you're not winning. Some brilliant bigger communities (like around the Skip Barber series, lots of fun) and some brilliant smaller ones (like the Lotus 49 and 79 groups). Racing is cleaner, fairer and harder than anything else out there.

Additional notes:
RF2 and iRacing are for me the two best sims out there. Simbin is the choice if you want a cheap introduction to sim-racing. RF2 is sadly a bit messy and held together by sticky tape but when you find a good league the racing is the best you'll find anywhere.

IRacing has helped me to become faster when karting in the real world due to the wonderful ecosystem around it, so many cool tools. I can view my telemetry vs other drivers (including the very fastest) and see exactly what changes I need to make to go faster. In 2 years I've become a MUCH faster driver.

If you want to get faster, drive a league with RF2 or go to iRacing for pick-up (there are leagues too but for me that's missing the point).

FINAL NOTE: SOME GUYS WILL BE MUCH MUCH FASTER THAN YOU
Don't be disheartened by other guys being faster than you. Even if you're quicker in other games. They've been there a long time and got thousands of laps under their belt. They know the car and track inside-out and have used telemetry to understand where to gain time. You'll catch them in time, be patient and have fun in the meantime.


Whichever route you take, good luck and enjoy your sim-racing. If you choose RF2 go and spend some time in their forums, the guys there are very helpful and will point you to good mods, leagues etc. If you go to iRacing, have fun and I look forward to meeting you on track. Just remember that you can enjoy all of the sims for their own unique aspects.

[Empty Box]

Worth noting that the fee for rFactor 2 only applies if you want multiplayer functionality after the first year.

But otherwise, pretty much exactly what should be said.

[8vvduecevv8]

Can I just say regarding rFactor vs iRacing.

I know of dozens, if not a over a hundred iRacers who who originally use to use rFactor 2. Only 1 of them I know of regularly goes back to race rFactor and that's only because he crushes the competition as the competition level on rFactor is weak to say the least as well as being a wreckfest.

rFactor 2 is great however if you want to hotlap a mod track of your favourite local track.

[Packy]

good post!

Do you also play RaceRoom Racing Experience (RRRE)? Or do you include RRRE in with the SimBin game on your list? IIUC, Sector3 recently split off from SimBin?

My very limited time is spent with iRacing, Assetto Corsa, and RRRE. I play all three for different reasons and each has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

[HariSeldon]

Publicado originalmente por Backmarker:

good post!

Do you also play RaceRoom Racing Experience (RRRE)? Or do you include RRRE in with the SimBin game on your list? IIUC, Sector3 recently split off from SimBin?

My very limited time is spent with iRacing, Assetto Corsa, and RRRE. I play all three for different reasons and each has it's own strengths and weaknesses.

I've only played with RRRE fairly briefly but the menu system being the apalling mess that it is it's quite hard to get any actual racing done. Yeah I know iRacing's UI sucks but RRRE takes it to a new level. For Simbin then I'm mostly talking about the Race 07 generation of stuff.

I'm also quite a fan of Game Stock Car Extreme which is built off the RF1 engine btw, so you should look at that too.

[HariSeldon]

Bump.

[_jay]

Something that someone mentioned on another forum elsewhere.

Once AC is 'done'. Will the developers still be working on it in a few years time? Unless iRacing disappears, then they will still be developing and evolving iRacing.

In addition, OP didn't mention whether cars are individually and uniquely simulated (as iRacing does) or whether they are just black box models with just variables that change each cars properties (eg. Weight, power, etc) with a model for looks. From what I know this is the reason that cars can take so long to be developed for iRacing.

[Associat0r]

What you say about rFactor2 is not my experience. The AI has been vastly improved over rFactor1 so there is less need for tweaking by the modder to get it right.

I've had the best offline race experience with it. The AI can be agressive, yet disciplined and they don't rear-end you, even with modded car/track content.

To get the AI to spread more, all you have to do is reduce the "AI Limiter" in your player.JSON file.

Also in my experience online auto-downloading of mods works very well and the pickup racing is typically cleaner than in Assetto Corsa. Of course it's not as clean as iRacing.

[rancer890]

I have rF2...but it just never feels right to me. Maybe it's my FFB, but my experiences with AC and iRacing are much better.

[Packy]

Publicado originalmente por rancer890:

I have rF2...but it just never feels right to me. Maybe it's my FFB, but my experiences with AC and iRacing are much better.

+1

[kazereal]

Ok, this is one the more useful descriptions I've seen.

So with this and other information out there iRacing has similar level of physics as RaceRoom?
Which is a huge disappointment in comparison to rFactor and other SimBin titles..

Also there is no way to race when you have free time? It's always on someone else's schedule?
A big drawback for me anyway, makes this practically useless.

Apparently you must spend some time in "little leagues" to grind first before actually getting somewhere? That seems just a way to make sure people use certain amount of money on it..

There are just too many dubious things here to justify buying into this. I am after detailed and accurate physics and high level of realism, these limitations are too much to justify the cost in my opinion.

[8vvduecevv8]

Publicado originalmente por kazereal:

Ok, this is one the more useful descriptions I've seen.

So with this and other information out there iRacing has similar level of physics as RaceRoom?
Which is a huge disappointment in comparison to rFactor and other SimBin titles..

Also there is no way to race when you have free time? It's always on someone else's schedule?
A big drawback for me anyway, makes this practically useless.

Apparently you must spend some time in "little leagues" to grind first before actually getting somewhere? That seems just a way to make sure people use certain amount of money on it..

There are just too many dubious things here to justify buying into this. I am after detailed and accurate physics and high level of realism, these limitations are too much to justify the cost in my opinion.

I feel like you have read into iRacing in all the wrong ways.

Physics. Overall better than everything else and is constantly updated. i.e Just last night they updated the physics of spring rate treatment across all cars. Say you brought a car 5 years ago? It will get updated also.

Schedule, there aren't millions of racers so races must be spread apart 1 or 2 hours. Many people only do 1 or 2 races a week and spend the rest of the time hot lapping, qualifying and generally preparing for their weeks racing.

It's not about grinding to level up. A prepared racer who treats himself like a rookie and has a good approach can be out of rookies in 10 odd races. A game approach and less skilled racer could forever be in rookies, or spend a few frustrating months before realising the approach to take to each race.

It's not a way to get money. Wouldn't iRacing just let you access all cars as a beginner if they wanted you to outlay cash?

If you are after detailed and accurate physics and high level of realism plus respectable online racing then iRacing is by far the best option. Look up some videos about iRacing creation. You'll see the huge level of detail cars are created to. Also tyres while flawed at times, they try to recreate at the molecular level.

Also iRacing tracks are 1mm perfect unlike other laser scanned tracks like AC etc which are 10 to 20mm accurate. That makes a huge difference. iRacing tracks retain the character, others feel quite dull to me.

To put it simply iRacing attracts serious and casual racers alike and those racers only really dabble in AC, raceroom, pCars etc. iRacing is the only one everyone typically spends 99% of their time.

People discover iRacing and don't turn back. Not the other way around. People don't start off on iRacing and discover AC or raceroom or rFactor.

Once on iRacing nothing compares. Everyone on iRacing typically already knows and have tried all other sim titles.

Remember, iRacing can be ultra hardcore and competitive, which is why all the top sim-racers and pros use iRacing. But it is also very much suits racers of all ages, slow or fast, casual or competitive.

If you love racing, then using a promo code and trying it out for a few dollars should be a no-brainer.

[Red Herring]

Publicado originalmente por kazereal:

Ok, this is one the more useful descriptions I've seen.

So with this and other information out there iRacing has similar level of physics as RaceRoom?
Which is a huge disappointment in comparison to rFactor and other SimBin titles..

Also there is no way to race when you have free time? It's always on someone else's schedule?
A big drawback for me anyway, makes this practically useless.

Apparently you must spend some time in "little leagues" to grind first before actually getting somewhere? That seems just a way to make sure people use certain amount of money on it..

There are just too many dubious things here to justify buying into this. I am after detailed and accurate physics and high level of realism, these limitations are too much to justify the cost in my opinion.

1. Higher level of physics that Raceroom. I don't knw where that came from.

2. Yes, you can race whenever you want. Host a race. Race with a league. Enter ANY practice session you want. Qual whenever you want. For iRacing series, the RACES are on a schedule. If you haven't practiced and qual'd before you get to a race, no one wants you there, anyway, and you will forever be slow, in Rookies, and more than likely protested a lot.

3. You are never required to join leagues. There are many advantages of leagues. They are free. They control the schedule and race times/content. You get to know drivers in a leage as opposed to randoms all the time.

There isn't anything "dubious". There is doing your research and realizing iRacing works like a typical race week in SCCA/real world, and it is not entrapped by "gamisms".

It is for adults who can work racing into their real life, and is pretty good training for what they represent.

Nothinig is perfect, but it works right out of the box, as long as you have good peripherals, and does it's experience well.

Quite honestly, it is the model I believe that all games should be using instead of "one and done" releases.

[hexagramme]

Publicado originalmente por Associat0r:

What you say about rFactor2 is not my experience. The AI has been vastly improved over rFactor1 so there is less need for tweaking by the modder to get it right.

I've had the best offline race experience with it. The AI can be agressive, yet disciplined and they don't rear-end you, even with modded car/track content.

To get the AI to spread more, all you have to do is reduce the "AI Limiter" in your player.JSON file.

Also in my experience online auto-downloading of mods works very well and the pickup racing is typically cleaner than in Assetto Corsa. Of course it's not as clean as iRacing.

This. The AI in rF2 is miles ahead of anything else found in sim racing/racing games. It's a benchmark for others to follow.

Learn to tweak a few different values, like the aforementioned AI Limiter, and you'll have a joyous time racing offline. Everything can be tweaked to fit your needs, aggression, strength, bunched up or spread out fields, etc. etc.

The incredible spacial awareness of the AI makes for the most enjoyable offline racing imaginable.

[Red Herring]

Publicado originalmente por hexagramme:

Publicado originalmente por Associat0r:

What you say about rFactor2 is not my experience. The AI has been vastly improved over rFactor1 so there is less need for tweaking by the modder to get it right.

I've had the best offline race experience with it. The AI can be agressive, yet disciplined and they don't rear-end you, even with modded car/track content.

To get the AI to spread more, all you have to do is reduce the "AI Limiter" in your player.JSON file.

Also in my experience online auto-downloading of mods works very well and the pickup racing is typically cleaner than in Assetto Corsa. Of course it's not as clean as iRacing.

This. The AI in rF2 is miles ahead of anything else found in sim racing/racing games. It's a benchmark for others to follow.

Learn to tweak a few different values, like the aforementioned AI Limiter, and you'll have a joyous time racing offline. Everything can be tweaked to fit your needs, aggression, strength, bunched up or spread out fields, etc. etc.

The incredible spacial awareness of the AI makes for the most enjoyable offline racing imaginable.

Has the quality from track to track improved? Internal lighting?

The AI, when I played it, was still doing huge brake taps and weird moves in the brake zones.

I think the biggest disappointment I had from rF2 was the huge variances in quality and undefined experience from the stock, delivered product (personally).

The best stock experience I have had was GTR2.

[Packy]

Publicado originalmente por dowroa:

Publicado originalmente por hexagramme:

This. The AI in rF2 is miles ahead of anything else found in sim racing/racing games. It's a benchmark for others to follow.

Learn to tweak a few different values, like the aforementioned AI Limiter, and you'll have a joyous time racing offline. Everything can be tweaked to fit your needs, aggression, strength, bunched up or spread out fields, etc. etc.

The incredible spacial awareness of the AI makes for the most enjoyable offline racing imaginable.

Has the quality from track to track improved? Internal lighting?

The AI, when I played it, was still doing huge brake taps and weird moves in the brake zones.

I think the biggest disappointment I had from rF2 was the huge variances in quality and undefined experience from the stock, delivered product (personally).

The best stock experience I have had was GTR2.

Please understand that those two guys are hardcore ISI fans. They are always at VRnet with the same names putting down all games except for rF-related games. hexagramms, whom I love and pray for to become more kind towards all sim racers, is so pungent that he goes into iracing blog entries and upvotes negative comments about the service. crazy and sad! imho, ymmv
in all fairness, hexxagramms has been mellowing lately and being more kind. I guess my prayers are helping her!
: )


hi hexagram! I hope you are doing well!
Do you two own iracing now? or are you guys in here for other reasons?