Statement regarding hacks, cheating, etc

[!^]

If you find a hacker, and manage to record its hacking activities, post it here along a the hacker's steam account and their account will be banned

How to record a demo: open console, write "record demo_name"
How to check someone's steam id: open console and write "status"

Note that this isn't a discussion focused area, just report.

[Rabbit Heart]

I have to be honest, this is pretty disappointing. While the intent may seem to be the opposite, this essentially gives people a free pass to use hacks in the game, without consequences.

In a multiplayer game like this one, one of the biggest "cons" a game can have is a community rife with hackers. When I'm considering buying a game, or even downloading and playing a free game, if I read reviews which state, "game is now overrun by hackers," I have no interest in playing it - and I think that's true for many people.

From my experience, when developers and game communities make a clear statement regarding hacking and cheating - stating those who engage in it will be unequivocally banned, etc. - less cheaters show up. When there's no statement or system in place, it's an invitation to come in and do whatever they please, and rub it in everyone else's face, which seems to be the selfish intent of many of those who openly cheat.

It's also disappointing to hear the various means of banning/suspending players dismissed, as - to be honest - not every cheater is savvy enough to use an IP workaround with their computer while playing. A lot of them are people who think there will be no consequences to their actions, sign in on their regular, home computers, using their actual IP, and do their little selfish thing. While it may not permanently remove every person using cheats, it will certainly (or would've certainly) removed a portion of them, which is enough in a game of this size.

The last thing I'll say is that I think the reason there was such an outcry regarding the particular cheater mentioned in the other thread is because it was affecting the experience of many of the regular, dedicated players. The cheat was playing every single day, for hours at a time, for about a month now; 160 hours logged in Fistful of Frags within the past 2 weeks. As I'm sure a lot of other players do, I look when playing for servers with a low ping, with the highest amount of players on them, and the guy literally showed up almost every time I played. The game isn't huge, so there aren't a lot of servers with large quantities of players on them, which means it's highly likely to run into the one person who plays Fistful of Frags with an aimbot every night.

As mentioned in the other thread by multiple people, that kind of stuff quickly clears out servers. People get frustrated, they don't want to play with someone who is using a downloaded program to handle their aiming and wallhacking and whatever else, so they leave. Some people may go to other servers, and some people may get frustrated enough that they stop playing that day. The people who go to the other servers, in a small community like this, are very likely to run into the same guy again, as he changes servers to follow the crowd. And then the emptying cycle begins again.

When it happens often enough, with no end in sight, people stop playing the game entirely.

I don't want that to happen to this game, as I greatly enjoy it, as I know many others do. So, as you've made your statement, what is it we're supposed to do? What do you advise?

Is there a way of actually contacting the server admins, to report each case as it arises? I've never seen an admin present on a Fistful of Frags server.

I'm also confused as to why adding a vote-kick option wouldn't be considered...if you look at a game like Chivalry, which has a pretty successful run right now for a low-priced, multiplayer game, the vote-kick option is present, and is usually used only against those who are intentionally team-killing and the like. Unless a player is intentionally screaming and the mic and acting like an idiot, I don't see players kicking others just because they have a young-sounding voice, or something like that. It's a completely reasonable way of addressing this problem, along with the many others threatened by an essentially unmonitored game at this point - I've already seen a player spamming macros, and once people realize they can act like idiots and bother everyone else without being removed, they'll begin doing so more noticably.

I bring this stuff up because I enjoy Fistful of Frags, I appreciate that you've offered it freely to us, and I don't want to see the game go the way that so many other unregulated multiplayer games have gone, especially right at its beginning. When there is no regulation or moderation of multiplayer games, they quickly become rife with hackers and fools, who ultimately drive everyone else away. The second reviews start showing up on the Fistful of Frags Steam store page saying "game is filled with hackers stay away," people will stop playing.

Please let us know what our options are, as players, in terms of addressing these problems as they continue to arise. If we have a way of contacting each server admin, I'm willing to do so if necessary, and I'm sure others invested in the game will feel the same.

Thanks.

[!^]

I'm open to read solutions. Banning an IP won't stop someone that obviously has a destructive purpose and spends several hours per day doing so. Hope you understand that. Dynamic IPs are quite common and learning to use a proxy isn't rocket science.

Second, dramatism won't help either. This is a game where the effect of someone using aimbot is quite lower than other games due the kind of guns, etc. I bet a lot of people haven't noticed. Someone tried even to dispute me that the guy was legit and it was all skill. So figure out.

As FoF is now, the only solution is what I said. Servers having active admins that can be contacted when a hacker is playing. I'd be gladly advertise those servers over the rest, which means more ads revenue for anyone wanting to help.

If a more elaborated solution was made, it probably would involve a system where players have to earn access to weapons as some sort of progress system. So if an account gets banned they would have to start again that process, so account ban would have some power in that case. Player's Steam level could be taken into account to ease that process, as the problematic accounts are ones with low level (0-5).

[3s]

i have played this game for a decent amount of time and i have not seen a single cheater, btw this game is awesome, thx for creating this awesome free game

[Papa Pasda' Ⓢ]

Only happened to me one time and appear it's a bug (invisible player), so no problem

[Rabbit Heart]

Originally posted by R_Yell:

If a more elaborated solution was made, it probably would involve a system where players have to earn access to weapons as some sort of progress system. So if an account gets banned they would have to start again that process, so account ban would have some power in that case. Player's Steam level could be taken into account to ease that process, as the problematic accounts are ones with low level (0-5).

I think changing the mechanics of the game to try and curb hackers making bunk Steam accounts is an awful idea, and I hope it isn't implemented, because that's allowing them to disrupt the nature of the game itself, entirely. I think you have a very good thing going right now, and many agree - please don't resort to such measures in response to the few jerks out there.

The reason I bring up the validity of IP banning and the like is because it's still used, effectively, in many popular Steam games today. I think the majority of people using cheats are those who download them without any real understanding of the programming and so forth - a lot are probably younger, and wouldn't get into creating a dynamic IP to play computer games.

That aside, things like VAC bans on Steam accounts are more useful than nothing. If someone wants to continually make new accounts just to try and cheat again, and get banned time and again, it's at least something of a deterrent.

Lastly, what you said about the unnoticable aspect of aimbotting in Fistful of Frags couldn't be more wrong. The player in question would make a point of getting the sniper rifle on each map, then go off in a corner or on top of a building and kill everyone, in a 360 angle, on the server, shooting through walls and everything else. It makes the server literally unplayable when it's happening, and it isn't dramatising to say that the server eventually clears out after people notice what's happening.

[3s]

Originally posted by R_Yell:

If a more elaborated solution was made, it probably would involve a system where players have to earn access to weapons as some sort of progress system. So if an account gets banned they would have to start again that process, so account ban would have some power in that case. Player's Steam level could be taken into account to ease that process, as the problematic accounts are ones with low level (0-5).

that is like call of duty with cowboys :(

[Papa Pasda' Ⓢ]

Originally posted by Rabid Wif Dead Eyez:

The reason I bring up the validity of IP banning and the like is because it's still used, effectively, in many popular Steam games today. I think the majority of people using cheats are those who download them without any real understanding of the programming and so forth - a lot are probably younger, and wouldn't get into creating a dynamic IP to play computer games.

Agree, most of them are script kidies, and in regard of my steam level i don't think you're proposition (r_yell) is a good idea xD

[frag]

My opinion: After playing some months of Fistful of Frags very regularly, i never encountered a cheater.

Now there is one cheater reported in this forum and its the first time i see so many people raging about one single guy.

There are not many cheaters in Fistul of Frags and I dont think it would hurt to give this one cheater who is there so often an IP ban. If heknows how to go around it, ok, but if not, the cheater is gone. Why not give it a try?!

[Antonio_]

I agree with the point that you have made Rabid but there is one problem with a votekick system and the same problem occurs in Chivalry as well. I am reasonably good with all the weapons in the game and whenever I use the Sharps, I get called a cheater by everyone despite me telling them how easy the gun is to use. Because of the amount of children playing the game, a votekick function will more than likely get me kicked, however... The idea for enabling the votekick function for only low ranked STEAM accounts would be a great idea.

One thing I wish for more than anything is for server admins to be more proactive in dealing with reports and server issues.

[!^]

Originally posted by Rabid Wif Dead Eyez:

I think changing the mechanics of the game to try and curb hackers making bunk Steam accounts is an awful idea, and I hope it isn't implemented, because that's allowing them to disrupt the nature of the game itself, entirely. I think you have a very good thing going right now, and many agree - please don't resort to such measures in response to the few jerks out there.

The reason I bring up the validity of IP banning and the like is because it's still used, effectively, in many popular Steam games today. I think the majority of people using cheats are those who download them without any real understanding of the programming and so forth - a lot are probably younger, and wouldn't get into creating a dynamic IP to play computer games.

That aside, things like VAC bans on Steam accounts are more useful than nothing. If someone wants to continually make new accounts just to try and cheat again, and get banned time and again, it's at least something of a deterrent.

Lastly, what you said about the unnoticable aspect of aimbotting in Fistful of Frags couldn't be more wrong. The player in question would make a point of getting the sniper rifle on each map, then go off in a corner or on top of a building and kill everyone, in a 360 angle, on the server, shooting through walls and everything else. It makes the server literally unplayable when it's happening, and it isn't dramatising to say that the server eventually clears out after people notice what's happening.

A progresion system isn't of my liking either but it's a valid solution if done properly. FoF won't be worse because some new player has to learn each gun in an specific order. It would be bad for those who already have experience, so losing weapons would be bad idea for sure. My proposal (just a wild idea for the moment so people dont jump on my neck), would only be applied for new accounts that haven't played FoF before as I tried to say, more or less.

IP banning requires the IP of the hacker. Only server admins can get that. Second, a dynamic IP doesn't require anything, by switching on/off the router you get a new IP. Chasing IP banning may work or be completely dumb as it just follows a hacker's game. It's not a general / long term solution for the problem.

Also, my words were: "This is a game where the effect of someone using aimbot is quite lower than other games due the kind of guns". Quite lower != unnoticeable, it's just an automatic weapon + aimbot is much worse than a single shot or 6 shooter revolver + aimbot. That's pretty clear at least for me.

Originally posted by 3s:

Originally posted by R_Yell:

If a more elaborated solution was made, it probably would involve a system where players have to earn access to weapons as some sort of progress system. So if an account gets banned they would have to start again that process, so account ban would have some power in that case. Player's Steam level could be taken into account to ease that process, as the problematic accounts are ones with low level (0-5).

that is like call of duty with cowboys :(

As if call of dudy was that game that failed and no one ever heard about it again ;)

Originally posted by S.S. Antonio:

The idea for enabling the votekick function for only low ranked STEAM accounts would be a great idea.

I commented this possibility to Zero today, I may add it.

[Rabbit Heart]

Originally posted by S.S. Antonio:

One thing I wish for more than anything is for server admins to be more proactive in dealing with reports and server issues.

If there was some resource of information regarding the Fistful of Frags servers (a place with email/contact information for the admins), I think that would be great. The problem right now is that when you're on a server, there's almost never an admin present, and there's essentially no information available about the server you're on, other than the server name and IP.

I'd hope that most server admins, if we had a way of contacting them, would respond and want to deter hacking. I've met one so far who's awesome about that sort of stuff, and genuinely doesn't want it on his servers, which is great.

[Revdutchie]

Originally posted by Bob_The_Avenger:

Anyway as someone who has been an admin on more source servers and games than I can remember I shamelessly submit myself for admin for any server admins here :)

With a steam level of 0 and a hidden profile?

[Revdutchie]

I did not say anything about lying, I only stated that with a steam level 0 and an hidden profile I would not ask you for admin that's all.

[Mormacil]

Your proposed solution in teh patchnotes sounds excellent. Thanks.

[DaBoom]

Most of the time, when I stumbled upon people whining about "zomg cheaters are one-shooting me dead in the eyes!!!11", it was simply a case of skill vs newbieness. For example they didn't know that a pistol like the Colt Walker can kill you with a single shot and they called it a cheat.