Balance doesnt need to be addressed

[No Ragrets]

This is a roguelike, get more unlocks before you start whinging about diff. Act 2 is easy after youve done a few runs and unlocked more cards/relics/items and made buildings.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by No Ragrets:

This is a roguelike, get more unlocks before you start whinging about diff. Act 2 is easy after youve done a few runs and unlocked more cards/relics/items and made buildings.

At which point Act 1 becomes boring and Act 3 is still almost too hard. It's not that it's difficult, it's that the game is not properly balanced between the acts. Act 1 monster having 20 hp and dealing 5 damage while Act 2 ones have 180 hp and deal 20 makes no sense when your cards go from 5 defense to 6 defense.

You're just one of those people who have to come into a forum to pretend like something that's difficult is totally easy for you. It has been already played out by the time Dark Souls 2 rolled around and it's just cringy now.

And even if you had a point - what is the design logic behind being locked in Act 1 until you have all the upgrades? It's neither fun nor interactive, it's just grinding.

[No Ragrets]

If youre whining about having to do multiple runs in a roguelike already then youre gunna be really upset when you get to the act 3 boss.

[Jonah]

I love the whole "Its a rogue like so its okay for it to be poorly balanced" argument, any other genre would be raked over the coals for only one play style being viable, requiring cheese and massive difficulty spikes.

[Kiko Hernández]

If anything, the game is too easy. Play Slay the Spire and you'll see what I mean

[Lionheartwolf]

I would still say the game is poorly balanced. What people like about roguelikes is that there is an intrinsic learning curve, not an artificial one. This game heavily relies on the latter for the sake of a progression system.

I do agree that the game gets easier, but you dont have to take my word on it. It's obvious from the main screen. Free play mode clearly states that Easy mode has all constructions, and Hard mode has none. You are basically starting on hard mode, and working towards easy mode.

When I read the developers notes about making it more challenging, initially I thought people were crazy, but now that I see how easy the game is when you no longer need to worry about fuel, sanity, and purchasing resources and can spend all your money on relics that basically make you invincible, now I can see where people are coming from.

The game is poorly balanced. Initial runs are too difficult, and latter runs are too easy. Worse still is none of this comes from your experience with the game. You don't need to learn a better strategy. You just need to know basically what each relic does, and which sets are worth completing. The rest is just a resource grind until you can unlock and purchase the right relics.

If you took a brand new player and started them off with all the luxuries of a late game player they would inevitably catch up in just a few runs.

[Ovalbomd12]

Even on Hard, this game is very easy once you know what you're doing, If you can manage fuel, and stall a bit in Act 1, figure out how to manipulate the travel decks, and get a solution to Sanity, be it fearless, the sanity relic or the sanity equipment, you are basically invincible. I've done 8 runs on Hard, without having played before. first two I died, next two I won. Ran of fuel on 5, died on 6 due to bad Defense RNG, and then won 7 and 8. The Hard mode shouldn't be so easy that 2 runs is enough to comfortably say "Game is basically mastered."

Now, higher numbers wouldn't be the best way to do that imo. Giving enemies and bosses more unique mechanics, and giving encounters more outcomes/more % chances on outcomes would definitely make the game more difficult.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by Kiko Hernández:

If anything, the game is too easy. Play Slay the Spire and you'll see what I mean

StS goes from enemies having ~20-30 hp in Act 1 to 40-60 hp in Act 3. What are you even on about.

[No Ragrets]

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

Originally posted by Kiko Hernández:

If anything, the game is too easy. Play Slay the Spire and you'll see what I mean

StS goes from enemies having ~20-30 hp in Act 1 to 40-60 hp in Act 3. What are you even on about.

So the game is too hard because it isnt the same as slay the spire?

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

You're just one of those people who have to come into a forum to pretend like something that's difficult is totally easy for you. It has been already played out by the time Dark Souls 2 rolled around and it's just cringy now.

Weeb name, Degen pfp. Way to out yourself as an instant gratification crybaby, i never said the game was easy, i said act 2 is easier after unlocking stuff after a few runs which is true.

[Undead]

Originally posted by Ovalbomd12:

Even on Hard, this game is very easy once you know what you're doing, If you can manage fuel, and stall a bit in Act 1, figure out how to manipulate the travel decks, and get a solution to Sanity, be it fearless, the sanity relic or the sanity equipment, you are basically invincible. I've done 8 runs on Hard, without having played before. first two I died, next two I won. Ran of fuel on 5, died on 6 due to bad Defense RNG, and then won 7 and 8. The Hard mode shouldn't be so easy that 2 runs is enough to comfortably say "Game is basically mastered."

Now, higher numbers wouldn't be the best way to do that imo. Giving enemies and bosses more unique mechanics, and giving encounters more outcomes/more % chances on outcomes would definitely make the game more difficult.

could you record one of your runs on hard? or write a guide on what you do to win so easily? I am genuinely curious what the trick is.

[Roderick720]

Have you fought some of the Act 3 monster mobs after Cthulhu shows up? They are absurdly difficult, even with lots of building upgrades and epic cards. The Mi-Gos and Cloud Beasts especially are almost consistently run enders for me. I don't think the overall balance necessarily needs to be changed, but those enemies need to be tuned down.

[HaikenEdge]

Originally posted by Undead:

I am genuinely curious what the trick is.

The answer is to "git gud" /s

That seems to be the answer everybody who says the game is too easy has. That, and play one very specific style: all defense, all the time. Hell, Rudy Gobert would be a boss character in this game.

[Tozobi]

The balance problem is not so much that the game itself is difficult. Rather, some characters work easily without that many building upgrades or even the full card/relic list unlocked - for me it was the Professor, whereas other characters are a bit behind prior to unlocks - the Cultist pre-card and building unlocks. All characters appear to be equally viable when things are unlocked, even though not all of their starting deck options are not remotely equal in power.
The other possible problem is that due to the "upgrade your cards" mechanic, you are rewarded for stalling early fights to get as many upgrades as possible. This is not a problem for me, as I liked the idea in other games too, e.g Griftlands which another poster referenced in another topic. But this may be off-putting to some people.

On Act 3 monsters post - Cthulhu, I've had no trouble with them, but I still get some random wipes by Act 2 trash human mobs, even with Epic unlocks. Funny how a group of prostitutes and their Madam is more likely to kill you than Nyarlathotep, but I feel that this would make Lovecraft smile!

[No Ragrets]

I dont stall fights and dont have this problem, the act 2 monsters and boss were soooo hard, and then they werent. The act 3 enemies were soooo hard, and then they werent. This is how roguelikes operate. Something seems too difficult to surpass, how will i ever get past this. Then you unlock stuff and unlocks combined with good rng and a brain let you get past it. Its not that the game is too difficult, its that people expect to fly through the game. "i dont like losing this way because im losing in the wrong way!"

How would anybody complaining about this survive in Darkest Dungeon, which is even more brutal than this.

[Hex: Onii-Chan]

Originally posted by No Ragrets:

I dont stall fights and dont have this problem, the act 2 monsters and boss were soooo hard, and then they werent. The act 3 enemies were soooo hard, and then they werent. This is how roguelikes operate. Something seems too difficult to surpass, how will i ever get past this. Then you unlock stuff and unlocks combined with good rng and a brain let you get past it. Its not that the game is too difficult, its that people expect to fly through the game. "i dont like losing this way because im losing in the wrong way!"

How would anybody complaining about this survive in Darkest Dungeon, which is even more brutal than this.

Because in DD you don't go from having pigs with 20 hp in easy dungeons to 180 hp pigs in medium dungeons. Again - the jumps are the issue, not the overall difficulty. It's literally imbalanced. There is no state in which all 3 acts feel well balanced in one playthrough. Either the later ones are impossible and the earlier ones are well balanced, or the later ones are well balanced and earlier ones are a joke.

[HaikenEdge]

Originally posted by Hex: Onii-Chan:

Again - the jumps are the issue, not the overall difficulty. It's literally imbalanced. There is no state in which all 3 acts feel well balanced in one playthrough. Either the later ones are impossible and the earlier ones are well balanced, or the later ones are well balanced and earlier ones are a joke.

This all goes back to the game being balanced around the metaprogression of the base building, rather than the progression of the cards leveling up.

Sure, you'll need to level up your defense cards by grinding, because the game loves to throw massive damage numbers at you, but all in all, progressing your base is way more important to this game for most players than leveling up your cards, and that feels weird, because we're conditioned to expect roguelike deckbuilders to be balanced around the cards and not the outside mechanics.