Store bought Calm/Command spells are worthless?

[ZemX]

I've honestly avoided the mind-affecting Illusion stuff in both old Oblivion and in Skyrim. The stuff you have to do to get them to affect creatures and people at your level always seemed like a chore when all the other magic in the game is buy, cast, profit.

Am I missing something here? There don't seem to be ways to boost level affected for stuff like Calm and Command and the spells you can buy in stores have hilariously low levels they will affect. You can practically trip down a hill after leaving the sewers at the start of the game and be level 2, which is already the limit for Apprentice level Illusion Calm/Command spells. Did this ever make sense even in the original game?

I've read here and there that you want to use spellmaking for this, but thought I'd ask anyway. Is that really the only way to make these effects actually usable in the game? I'm also a little curious if there was ever a reason why they made such hilariously useless spells for people to buy.

[Rinkel Pnus]

I only buy those spells to create a custom one that can affect both humanoid and creature all the way up to level 25. And you can't wear armor or it will not be effective. With that said it's my favorite spell. It's fun watching NPCs fight each other.

[ZemX]

Originally posted by Rinkel Pnus:

I only buy those spells to create a custom one that can affect both humanoid and creature all the way up to level 25. And you can't wear armor or it will not be effective. With that said it's my favorite spell. It's fun watching NPCs fight each other.

The odd thing is that they made a perfectly reasonable and usable spell that does this called Touch of Rage which causes NPCs to fight each other up to Level 18 with just an Apprentice level spell. It's not quite the same as command because the NPC can still attack you but it usually has the effect of turning them on their pals. No version that works on creatures though, I think.

Same tier Command Creature or Humanoid is limited to level 2. Makes absolutely no sense but it's always been that way. I guess everybody just uses them to learn the effect then for spellmaking.

Edit: Oh yeah, I should have mentioned I am wearing no armor or shield, so my spell effectiveness is 100% on this run. The whole point of that was being able to use these particular spells. Except for them, the 95% effectiveness from armor isn't that big a deal.

[milehigh026]

They can be useful if used at the appropriate level. But the same can be said for just about any spell that you buy.
Since spell crafting requires you to know the spell that you are trying to craft, some of the stuff in game is really only there for you to learn the spell.
Since you seem to be new to the game here's a tip for you. If you craft a spell like command creature or frenzy or rally the highest magnitude will say level 25. But these level 25 spells will work on anything. Even for things that are higher than level 25. But you can't wear armor when casting them because it will lower your spell efficiency making it so that you can't reach the full strength of the spell.

Hope that all makes sense.

[Rinkel Pnus]

Originally posted by ZemX:

Originally posted by Rinkel Pnus:

I only buy those spells to create a custom one that can affect both humanoid and creature all the way up to level 25. And you can't wear armor or it will not be effective. With that said it's my favorite spell. It's fun watching NPCs fight each other.

The odd thing is that they made a perfectly reasonable and usable spell that does this called Touch of Rage which causes NPCs to fight each other up to Level 18 with just an Apprentice level spell. It's not quite the same as command because the NPC can still attack you but it usually has the effect of turning them on their pals. No version that works on creatures though, I think.

Same tier Command Creature or Humanoid is limited to level 2. Makes absolutely no sense but it's always been that way. I guess everybody just uses them to learn the effect then for spellmaking.

Edit: Oh yeah, I should have mentioned I am wearing no armor or shield, so my spell effectiveness is 100% on this run. The whole point of that was being able to use these particular spells. Except for them, the 95% effectiveness from armor isn't that big a deal.

I agree the level requirement should have been maybe a duration instead.

Touch of Rage uses Frenzy, I think, doesn't work on all creatures and NPC, but a Command spell will. There's also higher levels of the Command spell you can buy but you only need the lower level one to make a better version. Make Command Creature and Humanoid at 100 magnitude (level 25) with a duration of 2 seconds and you have a low Magicka cost and low level requirement spell that is useful all the way to end game.

[ZemX]

Originally posted by milehigh026:

They can be useful if used at the appropriate level. But the same can be said for just about any spell that you buy.

No, that was my point. You literally can't use Apprentice level Charm/Command spells on anything bigger than a sewer rat or mudcrab. That is most definitely not true of Apprentice Destruction spells.

Anyway good thing this run is a magic assassin. I'll mostly be using Illusion for helping me sneak up for the kill or poison delivery eventually. I just thought I'd noodle around with the mind-affecting spells to see if they were useful. I'll definitely play with them in the spellmaking altar. But it's good to understand their mechanics before doing that. So thanks everybody.

[White Rabbit Alice]

Take off your Armor. Completely. Find a Robe/Jewelry that gives Shield.

An Illusionist NEEDS 100% Effectiveness until you get to make your own spell, and be sure you use the correct level.

also. Invisibility wont count as a sneak attack, youll come out of invisible the minute you swing your sword. at least in the OG Oblivion that tended to happen.