So... no farming for multipliers now?

[maestro]

Got my first levelup and to my amazement instead of seeing multipliers on attributes based upon what I leveled, it seems like you get a straight 12 to distribute amongst 3?

Kinda wish I'd known that before starting the character. Oh well, at least my character is "close enough" that it won't make a big deal.

But with this system and how skills level faster if they are Majors, it seems like the optimal choices are going to be skills that are the hardest to level being Majors like Athletics, Mercantile, and Acrobatics, the skills that are the most annoying to level (choosing them as majors makes them level faster).

[Cooperal]

Yes, no more farming multipliers. And on the flipside you no longer have to worry about accidentally increasing stats either. Endurance is also grants health per level retroactively now. No reason to rush endurance at the start of every and all playthroughs.

Unsurprisingly the game still has enemy scaling just like all Bethesda games that came after it, but that nonsense about efficient/inefficient levelling on your part is no longer something that can happen.

[maestro]

That's awesome to hear!

So ya, gonna definitely major Athletics and Mercantile so I don't have to take 500 hours to level those two skills lol. It might just take 400 hours instead lol.

Oh well.

I'm just glad I can do what I want and not end up with a broken mess of a character because I wasn't thunking something over the head with a 2 damage axe to make sure I got a +3 in strength or something.

[FhqwhTODD]

You can also save up levels and do them all one by one and still get the 12 points every time. Game too hard? Stop using beds until you are comfortable again. No negative sideeffects on statgrowth.

[maestro]

Huh. that's rather nice. Now if only they'd give Morrowind that same treatment, lol.

Dear Lord the leveling in MW was even worse. A lot worse. A minimum +3 multiplier mod is near-required to have any fun at all in that game.

[Ruffio]

Originally posted by Cooperal:

Yes, no more farming multipliers. And on the flipside you no longer have to worry about accidentally increasing stats either. Endurance is also grants health per level retroactively now. No reason to rush endurance at the start of every and all playthroughs.

Unsurprisingly the game still has enemy scaling just like all Bethesda games that came after it, but that nonsense about efficient/inefficient levelling on your part is no longer something that can happen.

I found level scaling of enemies in the original tedious, and made finding "nice" loot/gear pointless. 5 minutes later you ran into some highway bandit trash that had just as good gear. I'm more in favor of some locations being more dangerous than others, and you risk get your bum spanked, but can level up, come back later and dish out the pain.

[maestro]

Originally posted by Ruffio:

Originally posted by Cooperal:

Yes, no more farming multipliers. And on the flipside you no longer have to worry about accidentally increasing stats either. Endurance is also grants health per level retroactively now. No reason to rush endurance at the start of every and all playthroughs.

Unsurprisingly the game still has enemy scaling just like all Bethesda games that came after it, but that nonsense about efficient/inefficient levelling on your part is no longer something that can happen.

I found level scaling of enemies in the original tedious, and made finding "nice" loot/gear pointless. 5 minutes later you ran into some highway bandit trash that had just as good gear. I'm more in favor of some locations being more dangerous than others, and you risk get your bum spanked, but can level up, come back later and dish out the pain.

IMO Skyrim's version was the best.

When you clear a dungeon, what level you were when you cleared it gets saved to that dungeon and you can create the world however you like, the only thing that was missing was some kind of on-screen thing telling you what level that dungeon is, because after 50 hours you're not going to remember which caves are low level and which are high level.

[paladin_66]

Morrowind was the best. Hand crafted non scaled stuff, where each dungeon had specific enemies at the beginning middle and end and that created a world where you could do high risk high reward stuff, there was truly a sense of exploration since you did not know what you would find, etc. Realistic, at least within the fantasy world. Level scaling is the scourge of RPGs.

[maestro]

Originally posted by paladin_66:

Morrowind was the best. Hand crafted non scaled stuff, where each dungeon had specific enemies at the beginning middle and end and that created a world where you could do high risk high reward stuff, there was truly a sense of exploration since you did not know what you would find, etc. Realistic, at least within the fantasy world. Level scaling is the scourge of RPGs.

But the problem was, you ran into this "where the frick am I supposed to go!?" where there is no indication whatsoever of where the player is expected to go, AND it creates a linear path through the game. You just don't know what that path IS. And there's no guaranteed that you will find enough stuff/powerups/etc to be able to survive the next step, esp. with how jank Morrowind's leveling system really was.

You talk about "high risk, high reward" but yet... most players are going to find a dungeon, go in, get their butt whomped and go "guess I ain't supposed to be here yet" and they'll do either one of two things:

1). Look up a guide that gives them an idea of where is safe to go and where ain't,
2). Experiment but still end up on mostly the same path

or I suppose

3). Give up and quit if it's too obtuse/their patience is exhausted.

We moved away from that kind of game design in open world games for a reason. It makes no sense to give the player an open world, but yet shoehorn the players on a specific path through this open world.

Old RPGs before Morrowind allowed for this, because they were not open world games. They had linear paths through the game's story and areas, and enemies increased in power accordingly.

In fact, I'd argue Morrowind is an object lesson as to why zero scaling in an open world game fails, and fails hard.

And BTW, Might and Magic (the first person dungeon crawler games, NOT the Heroes Of which are tactical RPGs) games have the same problem. Until/unless you find some way of finding out where and what you're supposed to do next, the game is tedious until you learn it.

[Cooperal]

Originally posted by paladin_66:

Morrowind was the best. Hand crafted non scaled stuff, where each dungeon had specific enemies at the beginning middle and end and that created a world where you could do high risk high reward stuff, there was truly a sense of exploration since you did not know what you would find, etc. Realistic, at least within the fantasy world. Level scaling is the scourge of RPGs.

I like the handcrafted approach the best, but I certainly don't think of Morrowind as a good example of it done right. But having a statically scaled world did make the problem of inefficient levelling much less of an issue, because even a bad level up would still be progress.

I think I would look to Dark Souls 1 as a good example of static scaling. The actual power-curve between early and end game wasn't as steep as many other RPGs. This meant that with enough skill you could compensate for being underpowered and it won't make each fight take years, whereas the early game challenges won't decline from tough to trivial in just the space of a few levels.