What is the point of levelling up?

[Morpheus]

If your enemies get stronger and level up when you do, then what purpose does it even serve?

[Seferoth]

Some enemies get stronger. There is a HUGE misinformation going around since 2006 that everything scales in Oblivion. It has never been that way. Still, you raise a decent question...what is the point of leveling in games with level scaling? I don't know, i like big numbers, and getting new perks, seeing new stuff appear, level scaling has never really bothered me personally. I like that there is always some challenge in the game, regardless of your level. Perhaps someone smarter can answer to that question, but honestly...i can't, even though Oblivion is my favorite game of all time.

[Haikukai]

Deleting that wall of stats because I accidentally pulled that from the original oblivion wiki.


If you aren't taking levels you are missing out on all of those bonuses. And since you can now distribute your level up points however you wish there's really no reason not to. In addition you are blocking yourself from being able to cast the next level spells, obtaining the next level of armor etc.

[Dixon Sider]

If you dont level up, the enemies will overwhelm you. Its not like Final Fantasy 8. The game will get very difficult if you don't, unless you have some extreme meta knowledge of where certain things are.

[EricHVela]

Great. Now I have Inane Game by MashedByMachines stuck in my head now.

Rando encounters and encounters with rando elements do scale with the player, but some set encounters don't or only scale a little from their designed level.

[delerium76]

Originally posted by Haikukai:

Strength
Affects your maximum Fatigue, maximum Encumbrance, and damage done by melee weapon and hand-to-hand attacks.

Intelligence
Affects your maximum Magicka.

Willpower
Affects your maximum Fatigue and Magicka regeneration rate.

Agility
Affects your maximum Fatigue, chance to avoid being staggered in combat, and damage done by ranged weapon attacks.

Speed
Affects your movement speed and the length of your jumps.

Endurance
Affects your maximum Fatigue, starting Health, and Health gain upon leveling up.

Personality
Affects your Disposition scores with NPCs and creatures.

Luck
Modifies the effective values of all skills except Acrobatics, Athletics, and Speechcraft.


If you aren't taking levels you are missing out on all of those bonuses. And since you can now distribute your level up points however you wish there's really no reason not to. In addition you are blocking yourself from being able to cast the next level spells, obtaining the next level of armor etc.

This is a bit of misinformation. Even though in this game, all skills contribute to leveling, skills and levels are NOT the same thing. You can still increase all of your skills to 100 and just never sleep, thus never level up. There's entire walkthroughs dedicated to level 1 and level 2 runs.

The few things level effects are attribute increases, what loot you can find in the world (except some static items that will always show up no matter the level), and the level/gear of certain types of npcs like bandits. Aside from that, with the right build you can still cast most everything, gain skill perks, etc. There are downsides most definitely, but the bonuses you get from attribute increases are just incremental (bigger numbers, not new abilities) and don't increase your ability power nearly as much as skill gain does. The advantage is that a great deal of the time, combat is super easy because you are fighting things that are WAY under your power level.

For more info, read through this: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Under_Leveling

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by delerium76:

The few things level effects are attribute increases, what loot you can find in the world (except some static items that will always show up no matter the level), and the level/gear of certain types of npcs like bandits. Aside from that, with the right build you can still cast most everything, gain skill perks, etc. There are downsides most definitely, but the bonuses you get from attribute increases are just incremental (bigger numbers, not new abilities) and don't increase your ability power nearly as much as skill gain does. The advantage is that a great deal of the time, combat is super easy because you are fighting things that are WAY under your power level.

Ya that requires a lot of meta gaming though. While fun and a cool challenge, its not going to be something you should consider in a normal playthrough. You would have to have prior knowledge or spend time googling things to succeed.

[Dixon Sider]

Originally posted by Haikukai:

Strength
Affects your maximum Fatigue, maximum Encumbrance, and damage done by melee weapon and hand-to-hand attacks.

Intelligence
Affects your maximum Magicka.

Willpower
Affects your maximum Fatigue and Magicka regeneration rate.

Agility
Affects your maximum Fatigue, chance to avoid being staggered in combat, and damage done by ranged weapon attacks.

Speed
Affects your movement speed and the length of your jumps.

Endurance
Affects your maximum Fatigue, starting Health, and Health gain upon leveling up.

Personality
Affects your Disposition scores with NPCs and creatures.

Luck
Modifies the effective values of all skills except Acrobatics, Athletics, and Speechcraft.

Was this retrieved from the OG game? It looks like some of this is wrong. For example, Agility increases dagger damage now. Also, endurance is retroactive now, so that tooltip is a bit misleading.

I would maybe edit this post a bit so you are not passing off incorrect information?

[Seferoth]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

Originally posted by Haikukai:

Strength
Affects your maximum Fatigue, maximum Encumbrance, and damage done by melee weapon and hand-to-hand attacks.

Intelligence
Affects your maximum Magicka.

Willpower
Affects your maximum Fatigue and Magicka regeneration rate.

Agility
Affects your maximum Fatigue, chance to avoid being staggered in combat, and damage done by ranged weapon attacks.

Speed
Affects your movement speed and the length of your jumps.

Endurance
Affects your maximum Fatigue, starting Health, and Health gain upon leveling up.

Personality
Affects your Disposition scores with NPCs and creatures.

Luck
Modifies the effective values of all skills except Acrobatics, Athletics, and Speechcraft.

Was this retrieved from the OG game? It looks like some of this is wrong. For example, Agility increases dagger damage now

Yes, that info is outdated.

[delerium76]

Originally posted by Dixon Sider:

Originally posted by delerium76:

The few things level effects are attribute increases, what loot you can find in the world (except some static items that will always show up no matter the level), and the level/gear of certain types of npcs like bandits. Aside from that, with the right build you can still cast most everything, gain skill perks, etc. There are downsides most definitely, but the bonuses you get from attribute increases are just incremental (bigger numbers, not new abilities) and don't increase your ability power nearly as much as skill gain does. The advantage is that a great deal of the time, combat is super easy because you are fighting things that are WAY under your power level.

Ya that requires a lot of meta gaming though. While fun and a cool challenge, its not going to be something you should consider in a normal playthrough. You would have to have prior knowledge or spend time googling things to succeed.

True, but it was more of an example than a suggestion. I was trying to point out that in most cases, Skill > Attributes. If you want to be powerful in combat, focus on combat skills while keeping your non-combat skills low. This will limit your level gains while scaling your damage/hp etc. The level 1 challenge is just an extreme of this.

[FhqwhTODD]

Most leveled quest rewards give the best version at level 30+

[Mightylink]

-You increase your own stats and get access to higher level spells.
-Better weapons and armor drop from enemies and can be found in chests.
-Different enemies will spawn at higher levels and provide more alchemy ingredients.

But yes, it's always been a sticking point that enemies get stronger with you as you level, if you stay at level 1 the game is much easier but you'll have access to less items and spells.

[Vakma]

Raising stats, unlocking new quests, getting access to armor and gear you wouldn't have at lower levels. Enemies don't scale, rather new enemies are added to the pool, low levels will have wolves and imps, high levels will have bears and Minotaur. Low levels won't find the same enchanted rings that a level 20 would, you can't do some quests until you reach certain levels. By the end game you'll still out power the enemies if you do you build half decent and get good gear (easier then OG where you had to be very careful how you level) eventually new enemies stop being added and their power caps out.

[delerium76]

Originally posted by Vakma:

Raising stats, unlocking new quests, getting access to armor and gear you wouldn't have at lower levels. Enemies don't scale, rather new enemies are added to the pool, low levels will have wolves and imps, high levels will have bears and Minotaur. Low levels won't find the same enchanted rings that a level 20 would, you can't do some quests until you reach certain levels. By the end game you'll still out power the enemies if you do you build half decent and get good gear (easier then OG where you had to be very careful how you level) eventually new enemies stop being added and their power caps out.

That's absolutely false. Enemies absolutely scale.

[wererabbit]

Originally posted by Vakma:

Raising stats, unlocking new quests, getting access to armor and gear you wouldn't have at lower levels. Enemies don't scale, rather new enemies are added to the pool, low levels will have wolves and imps, high levels will have bears and Minotaur. Low levels won't find the same enchanted rings that a level 20 would, you can't do some quests until you reach certain levels. By the end game you'll still out power the enemies if you do you build half decent and get good gear (easier then OG where you had to be very careful how you level) eventually new enemies stop being added and their power caps out.

Nope, not correct. Enemies in default Oblivion always scale.

[wererabbit]

Originally posted by Morpheus:

If your enemies get stronger and level up when you do, then what purpose does it even serve?

It's a mechanic that is supposed to provide you a constant challenge, but in actuality makes impoverished thieves and bandits run around in expensive glass armor as you level. In other words, the mechanic doesn't work.

You're much better off getting an overhaul of the gameplay that makes it so that there are plenty of bad guys out there that can one-shot you, that you should fear, and allow you to progress in your ability in order to take them on.

People who don't understand this concept in Oblivion probably played on console and never experienced a quality overhaul that gave the gameplay actual depth.