The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Remastered

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Remastered

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Oblivion Remastered enemy level scaling
I'm interested in whether they fixed the problem of endless lvl pumping of enemies? in the original game on high character levels even a regular rat was a damage sponge.
I wonder if anyone has managed to check this?
Първоначално публикувано от Deakon Black:
Първоначално публикувано от bondKI:
because there is nothing to fix...
Първоначално публикувано от Seferoth:
There was nothing to fix. It works exactly like they wanted it to. Leveling system on the other hand was something even they confirmed was messed up, so they updated it.
One of the main designers of the level scaling literally said that monsters leveling up with the player was a mistake.

https://www.videogamer.com/news/elder-scrolls-iv-oblivion-levelling-system-mistake-admits-designer-haunts-remaster/

"Alongside its antiquated levelling system, the original 2006 title has often come under fire for its “world scale” feature. While the player levels up, the game world would scale in line with the player, which Naismith says ‘was a mistake’, and this feature still exists in the new remaster. As such, as you level up and got stronger, so too do the enemies you face. However, this mechanic was changed come Skyrim into a far more balanced and rewarding game system, but there are already mods to fix this".
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Показване на 31-45 от 93 коментара
Първоначално публикувано от Sauriel:
alchemy and enchants are usually cheese

They're necessary especially at higher difficulties. It took 30 steel arrows to bring down one armoured Dremora in the Kvatch oblivion gate on master difficulty at level 5 with a 45 in marksman.
Първоначално публикувано от psychotron666:
Първоначално публикувано от 74X9:
I distinctly remember how I stopped playing because literally every enemy I encountered was practically unkillable, despite leveling up. yes for the most part it was humans and beasts but it was unpleasant

The only beasts that level up with you forever was minotaur lords and ogres.
so you're saying they didn't take care of fix this mess and it's not a problem at all?:steamsad:
Първоначално публикувано от 74X9:
Първоначално публикувано от psychotron666:

The only beasts that level up with you forever was minotaur lords and ogres.
so you're saying they didn't take care of fix this mess and it's not a problem at all?:steamsad:
It needs no fixing. It works exactly as it should. Only certain enemies scale forever. The new leveling already helps with this because you can't ruin your character by poor leveling.
Първоначално публикувано от DeadBeat:
Първоначално публикувано от Sauriel:
alchemy and enchants are usually cheese

They're necessary especially at higher difficulties. It took 30 steel arrows to bring down one armoured Dremora in the Kvatch oblivion gate on master difficulty at level 5 with a 45 in marksman.
Yes, I felt it at the time( I was hoping to play a fixed version where it wasn't necessary to resort to abuse
Първоначално публикувано от 74X9:
Yes, I felt it at the time( I was hoping to play a fixed version where it wasn't necessary to resort to abuse

I'm doing a ♥♥♥♥ ton of kiting early game while trying to improve my alchemy skill for the poisons I need to make things a bit more easier especially if i can get the drop on a enemy with a poisoned dagger for that sweet 5x bonus to damage.
Първоначално публикувано от Seferoth:
... you can't ruin your character by poor leveling.
A shame! No need to make decisions, if your decisions can't be wrong.
On the positive side: One excuse less to blame the game for players' own mistakes.
Последно редактиран от lonetrav; 24 апр. в 6:46
Първоначално публикувано от Seferoth:
It needs no fixing. It works exactly as it should. Only certain enemies scale forever. The new leveling already helps with this because you can't ruin your character by poor leveling.
I disagree.
It does not work as it should.
It works in the way it was designed. "Should" is highly subjective.

There are tons of guides that recommend to NOT sleep at all in Oblivion.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Leveling#The_Leveling_Problem

I never had this problem as I used level plans back then to create my ultimate allrounder, but the whole mechanic behind the leveling system still put a lot of people off from the OG.


Additionally:
Първоначално публикувано от Seferoth:
(quote)
Yes, and enemies will be huge health sponges at some point because of level scaling.
You even confirm yourself, that together with the difficulty setting (regardless of the percentage slider in the OG, or the settings here), the level scaling is problematic.
Последно редактиран от Just Chill; 24 апр. в 9:42
Old rule applies I think, stop leveling between 25-30. You can max out by then and much more easily now, be right where uniques are at their strongest, and not have the world around you be too unbalanced.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3067637199
Последно редактиран от Martial Autist; 24 апр. в 9:42
From what I understand, and since I don't own the game I can't test it, they did tweak it so that it's not as terrible as it was before, but the level scaling may still exist to some degree. Just not as bad as it once was, so anyone wishing to play may want to bear that in mind.
Първоначално публикувано от Just Chill:
...It does not work as it should.
It works as it was designed. ...
There are tons of guides that recommend to NOT sleep at all in Oblivion. ...
- "Should" is a matter of opinion and personal preference (no matter how many posters agree or disagree with you). It's the players job (or challenge) to survive under the given circumstances. Nobody is guaranteed success, and nobody has to play the game. Criticise the game and its design, but be fair, and don't blame the game that it lets players make mistakes and player characters fail.

- Your "tons of guides" say nothing about the quality of these guides. Not sleeping (=leveling) at all may prevent monster leveling, but you lose a lot of content, too. Attributes determine what you can do - no leveling, no increased attributes. If you're happy with this, ok. But it's not necessary.

- "Health sponges": I've never seen "health sponges" in all the years I played Oblivion. Some enemies get stronger, cause more damage, so do player characters. If the monsters do it better than the characters (which is possible), then it's because players make mistakes when developing and/or equipping their characters - don't blame the game.
Първоначално публикувано от 74X9:
I'm interested in whether they fixed the problem of endless lvl pumping of enemies? in the original game on high character levels even a regular rat was a damage sponge.
I wonder if anyone has managed to check this?

What do you mean fix, it was awesome that the bandits suddenly have better armor and weapon that you can actually loot from them and sell it or use yourself.
Първоначално публикувано от Martial Autist:
Old rule applies I think, stop leveling between 25-30. ...
No need to. I completed the main quest at least 3 times, with different characters, and always at a level between 30 and 35. At least once I continued beyond (going to the Shivering Isles) until my character was somewhere in the 40s. New and different challenges, but the overall difficult didn't change much.
Последно редактиран от lonetrav; 24 апр. в 10:00
never was a problem. your player power scales exponentially past the mobs
Първоначално публикувано от lonetrav:
Първоначално публикувано от Just Chill:
...It does not work as it should.
It works as it was designed. ...
There are tons of guides that recommend to NOT sleep at all in Oblivion. ...
- "Should" is a matter of opinion and personal preference (no matter how many posters agree or disagree with you). It's the players job (or challenge) to survive under the given circumstances. Nobody is guaranteed success, and nobody has to play the game. Criticise the game and its design, but be fair, and don't blame the game that it lets players make mistakes and player characters fail.

- Your "tons of guides" say nothing about the quality of these guides. Not sleeping (=leveling) at all may prevent monster leveling, but you lose a lot of content, too. Attributes determine what you can do - no leveling, no increased attributes. If you're happy with this, ok. But it's not necessary.

- "Health sponges": I've never seen "health sponges" in all the years I played Oblivion. Some enemies get stronger, cause more damage, so do player characters. If the monsters do it better than the characters (which is possible), then it's because players make mistakes when developing and/or equipping their characters - don't blame the game.

Should implies that something works as "it should".
Like it was meant to be like that.

This game mechanic of enemies leveling with the player is highly debatable and a reason of why I grew quickly bored of Dark Souls too.

As you should feel a progress, when you level up. That's how leveling initially was meant to be.
TES made it different, yeah... But definitely not better.


I linked UESP-Wiki.
If you don't dare to read, then why do you bother even replying?
UESP-Wiki is one of the best pages, when it comes to infos about any TES game.


Seferoth stated that and if you set your difficulty to 100% (sorry that was old Oblivion) "Master", then you will have health sponges.
Additionally with the level scaling this turns quickly into a fiesta of boredom and annoyance.



Why?
Because this system is just there to be misused.
To level up quickly back then, I've set the difficulty to 100% and started to fight with a sword having blades as one of my main skill.
Enemies tank damage and you level that skill quickly as of intensely using it.

Then I switched to 0% difficulty and allowed my char to get a beating from enemies while wearing heavy armor (also a major skill).

But before raising both skills 5 times for a level up, I made sure to also raise Armorer 5 times and a mixture of Blunt and Hand to Hand.
All of them were secondary skills to avoid a level up.
As only the skill increases before the level counts towards the attribute multiplier.


Tadaaa, +5 Endurance, +5 Strength and +1 Luck on the next level up.


I agree, that the new level system isn't as tedious and you don't have to misuse the difficulty setting for raising the attributes quick and efficient.

But I had no issue back then with the level system either.

Instead, I found it 100% times better than that half-baked thing which we got in Skyrim.

Still, I am aware that many people struggled with and by stating my explanation of misusing the difficulty setting to level efficiently, just proves that it was indeed questionable.
I don't care about exploiting the difficulty to level quickly here.

Which means the new level system is quite enjoyable.
Последно редактиран от Just Chill; 24 апр. в 10:42
Първоначално публикувано от Just Chill:
.. I linked UESP-Wiki.
If you don't dare to read, then why do you bother even replying? ...
Seferoth stated that and if you set your difficulty to 100% (sorry that was old Oblivion) "Master", then you will have health sponges.
Additionally with the level scaling this turns quickly into a fiesta of boredom.
"Dare to read"? There is nothing to dare. I experimented with the method long before it was mentioned on uesp and found it boring. And I did read the uesp article later. Nothing new for me. Like I said, if this is how you want and enjoy to play, just do it.

I repeat that I never saw anything I would call "damage sponges". But I can imagine that players feel that enemies are "damage sponges", if their characters don't keep pace with leveling monsters. There is also the issue that many players seem to think that every enemy has to be defeatable whenever they encounter them. This is not always true in Oblivion.

The issue with Oblivion's leveling system (constant difficulty) has some justification. I suppose it's Bethesda's reaction to Morrowind's leveling issues, where there was less monster leveling linked with character leveling, but more with geography (certain monsters appear in certain regions only, never or rarely elsewhere). As a result, characters became undefeatable sooner or later (my characters reliably at a level betwen 20 and 25).
It's an old issue of RPG design, the two mainn design methods you see in Morrowind and Oblivion are widely documented and discussed. But to my knowledge, a satisfactory solution has not yet been found (except that players prefer one or the other, or certain combinations).

Finally, did your comment about "it should" mean that it was obviously worded as an opinion, and my reaction was unnecessary? Perhaps. I just wanted to make it clear that there is no objective "should". Of course, I respect opinions - as long as they are not confused with facts. At any rate, I didn't intend to criticise your opinion.
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