Change the Jester's Inspiring Tune

[Kyaw]

Let's admit it, when do you ever use the Jester's Inspiring Tune or better yet, when do you ever put him at the back slot to stay? Unless you are using a shuffle team, the jester only has 2 abilties that work is the back slot. Even the Crusader's Insipring Cry is better and it increases Torch light and can be done at any position.

What I suggest is change the positions to the 2 back slots. Maybe add in some minor buffs. That way, the Jester can use both Battle Ballad and Inspiring Tune while given excess to his Harvest and Slice-off

[Reoden]

Angoril eredeti hozzászólása:

Reoden eredeti hozzászólása:

But using a Jester to just spam Battle Ballad is by no means bad, and at least some high level groups that include them can easily farm high level content.

That is true. My main group (and the first to make it to level 6) is Vestal - Jester - Crusader - Hellion (from left to right).The Vestal has 2 Youth Chalices, the Jester has 2 Bleed Amulets, the Hellion has 2 Bleeding Pendants and the Crusader has 2 Tough Rings. I cleared all the bosses in the game so far with this group, apart from the Hags.

So far I have no issues using that group on anything. I even manage to land bleeds on the skeletons in the ruins sometimes with the Hellion and the Crusader having 85 HP and 20% Protection, makes even crits on him seem like nothing.

The Jester has a support role as I mentioned above but depending on what I am facing, Battle Ballad may be used on the 1st turn or not. It makes quite a difference though regardless of the situation, since it transforms even the Vestal into a meat machine.

I personally like Feather Crystals on both my supporting vestals and jesters, though I guess that's a different discussion. :P

And yeah I think putting 2 Tough Rings on someone is kinda broken at the moment. Lepers and Crusaders in particular seem to just take 1 dmg from most sources (I've heard the Prot stat works off max hp). Crits might do like 10-16 dmg, but that's not the scariest thing ever when they have like 80+ max health. Then if you use their own class Prot buff they could probably solo any boss. Well, the Crusader would probably still suck against the Hag since he cant actually hit her. lol

When I was leveling up my Jester I did exactly what you're describing, even used the same Bleed trinkets. I mostly relied on his Harvest, Slice Off and Dirk Stab. But at max rank I think he does plenty by just stacking up Battle Ballad buffs.

The Honorable Samurai Soldier eredeti hozzászólása:

idea for this:
Inspiring tune: max rank
+10% dmg
+5 acc
-5 stress

to one targe

I Think that would indeed make it better than it is now, but it would kind of just make it an inferior version of the Plague Doctor's damage buff. Maybe that should be a low or mid rank not the max rank. The Plague Doctor buffs at least 15% dmg, maybe like 20% at max rank, and I still don't think it's necessarily worth using.

[Angoril]

Reoden eredeti hozzászólása:

And yeah I think putting 2 Tough Rings on someone is kinda broken at the moment. Lepers and Crusaders in particular seem to just take 1 dmg from most sources (I've heard the Prot stat works off max hp). Crits might do like 10-16 dmg, but that's not the scariest thing ever when they have like 80+ max health. Then if you use their own class Prot buff they could probably solo any boss. Well, the Crusader would probably still suck against the Hag since he cant actually hit her. lol

When I was leveling up my Jester I did exactly what you're describing, even used the same Bleed trinkets. I mostly relied on his Harvest, Slice Off and Dirk Stab. But at max rank I think he does plenty by just stacking up Battle Ballad buffs.

Yeah, it's kind of an overkill, but the Crusader that has them equipped is the one you start with at the tutorial. Since he survived that long, I thought of trying to keep him alive until the very ending of the game. Doubt I'll make it though :P I don't use the Protection buff on any of my Crusaders. Never had any of them close to dying so I have them attacking all the time.

I don't start with Battle Ballad if I am facing groups with 2-3 stress attackers. The Crusader may be a beast when it comes to defense, but his damage isn't the best to rely on him to get them down fast.

The Honorable Samurai Soldier eredeti hozzászólása:

idea for this:
Inspiring tune: max rank
+10% dmg
+5 acc
-5 stress

to one targe

I wouldn't mind having such a buff to the Jester, but that damage/accuracy part can create one beast of a Lepper so I am not sure how balanced it would be.

[Reoden]

Angoril eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah, it's kind of an overkill, but the Crusader that has them equipped is the one you start with at the tutorial. Since he survived that long, I thought of trying to keep him alive until the very ending of the game. Doubt I'll make it though :P I don't use the Protection buff on any of my Crusaders. Never had any of them close to dying so I have them attacking all the time.

I don't start with Battle Ballad if I am facing groups with 2-3 stress attackers. The Crusader may be a beast when it comes to defense, but his damage isn't the best to rely on him to get them down fast.

Yeah Reynauld is a beast. Still have alive 75 weeks in. Sadly Dismas did not share the same long life (the HWM from the tutorial). Though actually I think crusaders do quite a bit of damage. Maybe not as much as a Hellion or Highwayman, but especially if you're in the ruins they can clean house. And with the stress guys, or almost any battle really, grape shot blast + zealous accusation usually wrecks most of them pretty fast.

As to the prot buff, I don't really use it all that often, and sometimes replace it with Holy Lance, but it can occasionally be useful if you have a lot of people low health and want to just make sure you don't need to worry about healing your crusader for a few turns. It's very situational, but Holy Lance is pretty situational too unless you're doing a full on shuffle group, so I sometimes swap between them. Both are fine choices imo.

Angoril eredeti hozzászólása:

The Honorable Samurai Soldier eredeti hozzászólása:

idea for this:
Inspiring tune: max rank
+10% dmg
+5 acc
-5 stress

to one targe

I wouldn't mind having such a buff to the Jester, but that damage/accuracy part can create one beast of a Lepper so I am not sure how balanced it would be.

Well Battle Ballad pretty much does that already :P. Leppers with +18 accuracy and 15% crit? Yes please.

[Angoril]

Reoden eredeti hozzászólása:

Yeah Reynauld is a beast. Still have alive 75 weeks in. Sadly Dismas did not share the same long life (the HWM from the tutorial). Though actually I think crusaders do quite a bit of damage. Maybe not as much as a Hellion or Highwayman, but especially if you're in the ruins they can clean house. And with the stress guys, or almost any battle really, grape shot blast + zealous accusation usually wrecks most of them pretty fast.

As to the prot buff, I don't really use it all that often, and sometimes replace it with Holy Lance, but it can occasionally be useful if you have a lot of people low health and want to just make sure you don't need to worry about healing your crusader for a few turns. It's very situational, but Holy Lance is pretty situational too unless you're doing a full on shuffle group, so I sometimes swap between them. Both are fine choices imo.


Well Battle Ballad pretty much does that already :P. Leppers with +18 accuracy and 15% crit? Yes please.

Heh, Dismas is dead for me as well but I can't seem to keep any highwayman alive either way. I am on week 105 on my main game, 14 dead so far, 8 of them Highwaymen... I'll be throwing a party the day I manage to get one of them to 6 lol. I have replaced Highwaymen with Bounty Hunters and Grave Robbers, they seem to be more resilient for me.

Holy Lance is among the skills I use on Crusaders. That's why I keep them on the 2nd spot as well. I don't go for shuffle groups, but it's always extra damage to the stress attackers early on. The Bleed skill from the Hellion to attack the 3rd one of them along with the hero on the 3rd spot. Most of the time I do a ranged attack with the Vestel too so 1st or 2nd turn, I am done with them.

As for Battle Ballad, it doesn't offer damage. A Lepper with boosted damage and accuracy is unstoppable. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, they haven't done anything similar with trinkets either as I have yet to see one that offers both damage and accuracy.

[EVILBONESAW]

My jester stays in back slot and mainly does battle ballad but if a fight is pretty much handled I will use inspiring tune to help ease stress a bit. But your right I rarely use it

[The Evil Resident]

what if we added a new "song" for jester, my idea:
Hymn of order:
resets party members to their original positions at the start of the fight
-9 stress all party except jester(max rank)

[Pixel Peeper]

The Honorable Samurai Soldier eredeti hozzászólása:

idea for this:
Inspiring tune: max rank
+10% dmg
+5 acc
-5 stress

to one targe

Once again, you have to consider the cost of not attacking.

You have four characters. Let's say you're not even using a healer; this means every character is responsible for 25% of the group's damage (with a healer, they would each be responsible for 33.3%). They all attack, you get 100% of your potential.

Four characters attack.
20 damage (average)
20 damage
20 damage
20 damage
Total 80 damage.

Three characters attack, one character buffs for 5 Accuracy and 10% damage.
23 damage (22 damage thanks to the buff, with one attack out of twenty being a hit instead of a miss for 1.1 additional average damage)
20 damage
20 damage
Total 63 damage.

Even on turn 3, when the buff is fully stacked:
~30 damage
20 damage
20 damage
Total 70 damage.

The stress relief? Well, by not attacking, your Jester gave up any chance at critting. In three turns, he would have crit once on average, and relieved about as much stress as the buff would.

Buffs have to be very, *very* powerful or it's just not worth using them.

[The Evil Resident]

Tripoteur Ventripotent eredeti hozzászólása:

The Honorable Samurai Soldier eredeti hozzászólása:

idea for this:
Inspiring tune: max rank
+10% dmg
+5 acc
-5 stress

to one targe

Once again, you have to consider the cost of not attacking.

You have four characters. Let's say you're not even using a healer; this means every character is responsible for 25% of the group's damage (with a healer, they would each be responsible for 33.3%). They all attack, you get 100% of your potential.

Four characters attack.
20 damage (average)
20 damage
20 damage
20 damage
Total 80 damage.

Three characters attack, one character buffs for 5 Accuracy and 10% damage.
23 damage (22 damage thanks to the buff, with one attack out of twenty being a hit instead of a miss for 1.1 additional average damage)
20 damage
20 damage
Total 63 damage.

Even on turn 3, when the buff is fully stacked:
~30 damage
20 damage
20 damage
Total 70 damage.

The stress relief? Well, by not attacking, your Jester gave up any chance at critting. In three turns, he would have crit once on average, and relieved about as much stress as the buff would.

Buffs have to be very, *very* powerful or it's just not worth using them.

really? 20 dmg per character? the jester does on ave, about 11-14 dmg for me and i honestly only ever use him for finishing people off. sure the bleed is nice,but in the late game with CRAZY resistances, his usefulness as an attacker is diminished. This is why he pairs so well with the leper who can do something like 50 dmg with revenge and other dmg buffs.along with bounty hunter and occultist, this is doing about 80-100 dmg with greater accruacy. sure the jester gives up his crits, but this focuses more on doing dmg than letting RNGesus take care of things. also, the battle ballad itself is very good due to the speed up possibly saving someone's life. Personally, I like going full dodge jester (55 dodge, mwahahahah) and keep spamming buffs while occasionally doing an attack to finish someone off.

[Reoden]

Tripoteur Ventripotent eredeti hozzászólása:

You have four characters. Let's say you're not even using a healer; this means every character is responsible for 25% of the group's damage (with a healer, they would each be responsible for 33.3%). They all attack, you get 100% of your potential.

Tbh I think this is a logical fallacy. It obviously heavily depends on your group compositions, but at least in most groups that I personally run, party members do not usually do 25% of the groups damage, if nothing else because I usually have a healer along doing nearly no damage. And even if you were to have 4 damage dealers, they would still not all be equal. For example if you have 2 hellions, a highwayman, and a Plague Doctor in the back rank, the plague doctor would probably deal less than 10% of the damage anyway, simply because the hellions and HWM as a class just flat out do more damage than plague doctors, all else equal.

There is really nothing that you can put in Rank 4 that can compete with HWM and Hellion damage. And even if you forgo a healer and put a HWM in rank 4, he would still not deal quite as much damage as a HWM in rank 2 or 3 or even 1 could because most of his abilities are locked in rank 4. For me the 4th rank is typically occupied by a healer (vestal) anyway, who probably does less than 5% of the overall damage, often closer to 0 or 1%. And I think it wont exactly be a controversial statement to say that Plague Doctors and Grave Diggers don't do as much damage as HWM or Hellions.

You could argue a rank 4 occultist would deal more damage than a Vestal, but then we bridge into the occultist vs vestal healer debate which seems largely irrelevant. Also while a rank 4 occultist might deal more damage than a Vestal in SOME fights (assuming there are rank 3 and 4 enemies to actually hit), his damage would still be extremely low when compared to good rank 1 2 and 3 damage dealers.

Thus your first 3 party members are often each dealing closer to or more than 30% of your group's damage. If you have a composition like Jester, Occultist, HWM, Hellion. Then between the occultist attacking when heals are not needed and the buffs coming from the Jester you only need to do a total of 30% of the group's damage to "break even", and I would argue they do this indeed. The occultist would need to heal from time to time, but the increases speed, accuracy, and crit from the stacked battle ballads will often mean you're taking less damage to begin with since enemies are dropping like flies.

And if you are going without a healer, I'd argue that having a jester in the back row giving the primary 3 damage dealers constant buffs is probably going to have the group doing more damage overall than if instead you had some Grave Digger or Plague Doctor in the back rank. Or they would at least be about even.