[COMPLAINT] Ectoplasm mobs are just utterly broken

[Pale Dolphin]

Nothing prevents Large Ectoplasm (38 HP) to spawn an extra Ectoplasm unit EACH TURN.

Seriously, how unbalanced is that?

EDIT: Oh, and did I mention that Large Ectoplasm crits with it's Large Slime, like, every. Single. Time.

[nemthos]

You could stun him to prevent him. On the other hand, the small ones are quite weak to aoe and the large one and be focused down easily

[h0b0king]

Ectoplasms have such low HP it's very easy to simply kill them whenver they spawn. The large one also doesn'y use it's cytokenisis attack all that often.

[Pale Dolphin]

Originally posted by nemthos:

You could stun him to prevent him. On the other hand, the small ones are quite weak to aoe and the large one and be focused down easily

Well, my late-game party kills them off quite easily -- exactly by stunning and finishing off in 2 turns. Yet my 0-lvl party was devastated by it. I had 2 damage dealers, 1 healer and 1 caster. It was summoning new Ectoplasms every 2nd turn, and criting with Big Slime every other turn, so first I've lost my damage dealer, then my healer, then the 2nd dealer, then the caster. It was all in like 11-12 turns too.

Man, I was so angry. This each-turn-summoning crap has to go, seriously.

[Pale Dolphin]

Originally posted by h0b0king:

Ectoplasms have such low HP it's very easy to simply kill them whenver they spawn. The large one also doesn'y use it's cytokenisis attack all that often.

It did use that attack every 2nd turn. And every other turn it was criting with Big Slime.

Also, my DDs kept missing on those smaller Ectoplasms (with 80 ACC, what the hell?), or dealing 5-7 DMG (Ectoplasm has 8 HP).

[Jones]

Originally posted by Pale Dolphin:

Originally posted by h0b0king:

Ectoplasms have such low HP it's very easy to simply kill them whenver they spawn. The large one also doesn'y use it's cytokenisis attack all that often.

It did use that attack every 2nd turn. And every other turn it was criting with Big Slime.

Also, my DDs kept missing on those smaller Ectoplasms (with 80 ACC, what the hell?), or dealing 5-7 DMG (Ectoplasm has 8 HP).

yah thats RNG, even tho people try and say its skill, but if you've ever played an xcom game you learn what RNG is really fast: stanting infront of a 1HP alien 99% chance to hit, you miss, they crit, you die. While skill is involed, luck is still a bigger factor.

They might want to add cool down to abilites? I dont see the problem as I found it odd how even my party didn't have cool downs.

[h0b0king]

So you took a zero level team into a medium dungeon and they did badly? Large slimes don't show up in green dungeons. Generally taking zero level teams on intermediate quests makes the game much harder and increases the number of enemy dodges, crits and leads to much higher stress. While one could call this RNG I think the basic tactical decison here would be one of skill.

Would you feel like XCOM had cheated you when you took a squad of rookies with no armor and assualt rifles against a mid-game mission and they lost?

[Pale Dolphin]

Originally posted by h0b0king:

Large slimes don't show up in green dungeons.

First of all, your point is invalid. Large Ectoplasm does appear in Lvl.1 dungeons. Not entirely sure though, which one that was -- Warren or the other one, the shroomy one (most likely the latter). What I'm absolutely sure about is that it was a Lvl.1 dungeon.

Second of all, I don't have any problems with game being hard. I have a problem, however, with some of the abilities being broken. Large Ectoplasm being able to summon smaller Ectoplasms and them being able to summon another Large Ectoplasm... That just seems broken to me.

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

So let me be very clear:

Enemies appeared that die in 1 hit from everything.
You gave them a turn.
They summoned a large slime.
The large slime summoned more small slimes, which also die in 1 hit from everything.
The large slime can't summon other large slimes, which don't die in 1 hit.

So what's the problem here?

[Pale Dolphin]

Originally posted by Celerity:

So let me be very clear:

Enemies appeared that die in 1 hit from everything.
You gave them a turn.
They summoned a large slime.
The large slime summoned more small slimes, which also die in 1 hit from everything.
The large slime can't summon other large slimes, which don't die in 1 hit.

So what's the problem here?

Reading before commenting usually helps.

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

Oh, then do tell. What did I read incorrectly?

Level 1 large slimes only appear if summoned, they are not on the normal encounter tables. Small slimes have no life and instantly die from any attack (though perhaps you are making the classic new player mistake of using a GR, and not a class capable of attacking). Both are low damage enemies.

[Killer Rabbit]

Originally posted by Celerity:

Enemies appeared that die in 1 hit from everything.

That's assuming that everyone in the party hits each one of their targets for 8 damage each time.

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

Which is an extraordinarily reasonable assumption given how low 8 damage is, such that you can do that much against 2 or 3 things at the same time. The summons also don't get a turn immediately, so you will always get a free round against any that do appear.

Unless you're using a GR instead of a damage class.

[nemthos]

Originally posted by Celerity:

Which is an extraordinarily reasonable assumption given how low 8 damage is, such that you can do that much against 2 or 3 things at the same time. The summons also don't get a turn immediately, so you will always get a free round against any that do appear.

Unless you're using a GR instead of a damage class.

Even a GR can kill one of them in one hit

[Celerity, Executor of Impunity]

4-7, so actually she can't. One more reason she's the game's Joke Class (Jester at least has Battle Ballad).

[Killer Rabbit]

So looking at the characters. None of them at the minimum range of the damage scale can 1 shot an 8hp creature. Some classes without a crit can't 1 shot an 8hp creature at the maximum end.

Jester 4-7
Bounty Hunter 5-10
Man-At-Arms 5-10
Crusader 6-12
Grave Robber 4-7
Plague Doctor 4-7
Leper 7-14
Hellion 6-12

Encountering a group of 4 creatures with 2 small ectoplasms that start summoning others and eventually a larger ectoplasm can be brutal for a party of low level characters, especially when there are other modifiers in play. I've had it occur in an apprentice (Lvl 1) dungeon. By the time I got the large down, it had summoned smaller ones which summoned a large one again. I beat it, but it was almost humorous how it seemed to keep going.