Focus Ring + Feather Crystal is opressively too strong and unversal

[Lujo]

Focus Ring somehow gives the biggest possible accuraccy bonus in the game, and also, god knows why, gives a tangible crit boost (to all skills I asume). Its intended balancing seems to be that it gives -8 to the dodge rating. This is nowhere near enough of a malus to begin with.

Feather Crystal gives +2 Speed and +8 Dodge with barely any downside. If you put them on the same guy, you get +2 Speed +15 attack and +6% crit for no penalty whatsoever. It's way too good compared to pretty much anything else as those are the stats most folks are (or should be) looking to boost anyway.

They absolutely overshadow class specific trinkets other than, possibly, some of the extremely strong Crimison Court trinkets, and can be used anywhere. I was thinking of giving feedback on Trinkets in general, but there's just too little reason to bother cosidering other ones with these two as good as they are. That combination either needs to go, or needs a nerf, that much I'm sure of.

As a suggestion, if there's a point to having an universal spammable +15 acc boost trinket it doesn't need the crit bonus, for one thing. And if Feather Crystal is supposed to be a +2 Speed +8 Dodge universal speed booster, and this seems to be it's role, then the universal highest +acc thing can't have it's penalty solved by pairing it with Feather Crystal. I can't see the point of having a +15 acc universal trinket in the game at all, as it really does obsolete too many other things, some of which are unique.

[Sir Francis]

i honestly would never use that combination of trinkets.
Why? it is the best but not specialized enough.
On which hero would you put it?
on a damage dealer you want more +damage or way more + crit
on some utility hero you want +stun chance
on a healer you want +heals
and so the opinions differ, from plain broken to very meh.
consider the matchstick: 2 speed, 10% ranged damage, 6% crit.
And that is just one trinket.
The truth is that noone, not even a leper, needs this much acc.

[Lujo]

That's still your playstyle. Every single character does enough damage with no boosts and I rarely ever use any damage trinkets at all. Some don't use damaging skills at all. And you never need to be able to chainstun, stuns are powerful enough as they are. +Heal trinkets are a complete waste of time. Every single character wants acc, speed and the crit will randomly boost damage. So this combination of trinkets is the best - doesn't matter what someone wants to play, or what ideas or prefferences someone has. You can put these two on every single hero and not even notice other trinkets exist.

Opinoins differ because yours is wrong. These are blatantly and plainly broken. No downside, boost stats which are always worth boosting. The only alternative to this is putting the eye and the matchstick on a pos 4 guy, and the very occasional specific trinket on a specific class. In every other case you're either better off with Focus Ring + Crystal, Focus Ring + whatever, or it's not worse than whatever else you'd put down.

There's no room for discussion on this, really. I didn't post it in the discussion forum, but the feedback/suggestion forum. Anyone not seeing this the way it is is just wrong about it, and it's not a matter of whether this gets nerfed now or eventually, it's just blatantly too good and it will be nerfed eventually. If devs keep patching the game at all that is, check in a year and see if it's not.

[Sir Francis]

Surgeons gloves plus ancestors pen is the real deal, that ♥♥♥♥ should be nerfed
or gloves+ crescendo box, 5 acc, 10 crit, 2 spd, 15% damage, clearly 100% superior.
noone needs 15 acc,
That is bloodmoon meta for you.
The one downside to that combo is that the results will never be bad but also never be good,

[Lujo]

"Meta" in the wider DD community is so full of incompetence and blatant inexperience that most opinons are not worth considering at all. Curently, these two seriously outdo anything else. No discussion, it's a fact. It always takes your basic DD player several months to notice anything relevant. God knows how many things I miss, but this is just plain and obvious. When enough bumbling casual streamers finally notice that this, indeed, is the cheeze, it'll for a short while be meta then get nerfed. As far as anyone with eyes and a brain is concerned that can be skipped straight to the nerf. Unless the intention was to just give people a supremely cheezy combination of items, which also might be the case - the game has an enormous casual fanbase and they can't get enough of this sort of thing.

I can't even form an opinion on most trinkets because there's hardly any point to using anything other than these, and when I do use others I can't tell how strong they are becuase "Well, they're not as strong as Focus Ring + Feather Crystal, I should've just used those."

[Sir Francis]

Ok, keep claiming objectivity like a dullard....
"Meta" as in my metagame. I played more than 300 hours in bloodmoon champion dungeon alone and i tell you that this mediocre combo will do just fine in most situations but will never obercome its mediocrity.

[FinetalPies]

I'm pretty sure spending half of an trinket's effect just to counteract the downside of another trinket isn't actually that efficient.

[Lujo]

Originally posted by FinetalPies:

I'm pretty sure spending half of an trinket's effect just to counteract the downside of another trinket isn't actually that efficient.

Unless we're talking of ending up getting +15 acc +6 crit and +2 speed from that. Those aren't just the only stats actually worth boosting in most cases, but it also makes you never feel any relevant debuffs. It makes the game a cakewalk. I mean, I irreparably lost the Ancestor's Pistol due to a bug and I'm not even slightly miffed about it because you can buy these things from the shop and have them on everyone anyway. It's not a constest, this is a ridiculous combination of trinkets. As I stated, it feels almost as if the devs put them there specifically so people still have something completely braindead-obviously broken to cheeze with.

In case they simply didn't think things thorough or this just slipped past them - please, do bring these in line. You can't have this combination of things on universal, easily available trinkets unless you want the point where the game loses all difficulty and gathering trinkets become largely meaningless be when a person gets 3-4 of each.

[FinetalPies]

I do accept the commonly held believe that the Focus Ring is overpowered, but I think that's true regardless of whether or not you cancel out it's -8 Dodge drawback

[Lujo]

I'm with you there, and plenty of guys do have high natural speeds, but it's just such an effortlessly good and obvious package. The highest possible acc boost with fine enough crit just sholudn't end up not costing you anything in return if you add a +2 speed trinket. On a tinket that you can get more than one off, and can buy from the shop.

If it was "only melee skills" at least you'd have to give a moment of pause before you just stick those two on whoever. And they overshadow non-CC class specific trinkets a bit too much.

[Lujo]

Ty for the update which tweaked Focus Ring and this can be closed now if anyone cares to do it :)

[FinetalPies]

I guess I haven't gotten that update yet since it still looks the same to me? Not sure how these minor updates work (I've seen changes occur but I don't recall having to download a new update for the game before playing, I keep auto-update strictly off on all my games)

[Lujo]

It's on the changelog for what's supposed to hit either tomorrow or thereabouts. Or today or something. Focus Ring got trimmed down to +10 acc +5 crit. Still -8 dodge, still pairs with Feather Cyrystal for no downside +10 acc +5 crit +2 speed, but at least there's no +15 acc on a thing you can get in a shop, stick on anyone in any position, get on both ranged and melee, use more than one of and not mind the light levels. Fair enough. Still easily top tier, if not still the best, but certainly not ridiculously so.

[FinetalPies]

Yeah I'd still use that version of the Focus Ring, so it's still good.

Also I wanted to ask if -20% to Move and Stun resist on the Feather Crystal can really be considered no downside? Stun certainly isn't exactly common but it can definitely hit hard and even cost lives if it were to happen at the wrong time.

[Lujo]

It's way too minor or a downside, honestly. Move resistance can potentially mess you up worse than the stun, especially if it puts your slow pos 1 guy way out of position or moves a guy with no frontline capability to the front. But since enemies pretty much attack random targets what needs to happen is all of the following:

a) They have someone with push/stun
b) That guy uses that ability instead of another one
c) They can even target the vulnerable guy due to targeting restrictions
d) The RNG lets them target your guy and not just any random target from among those they can target
e) They actually manage to HIT the guy (not even getting into guard shennanigans)
f) Guy actually fails the check for stun/move despite being a bit worse at it than usual
g) This proves to actually be fatal/deadly/seriously inconvenient

Waaaaaay too many conditions. And since the upside is either +2 speed and +8 dodge, both of which helps you avoid hurt (you move faster to prevent their guy from moving, or you get more chance to not get hit by the attack), OR +2 speed +10 attack +5% crit, pretty much top tier stats which also help you take someone out... Those penalties might as well not even be there. Feather Crystal is basically a no downside trinket you can put on anyone for relevant buffs. If you put it on eveyone, then your team is slightly more vulnerable to a few moves here and there, but it's really no biggie.

Feather Crystal looks like an intentionally "pushed" trinket. Take away the penalties altogether 4 realz and it's Very Rare or even Ancestral tier TBH, and the penalties are kinda just cosmetic unless they stack with the same penalties on you other trinket... which they probably won't. And even if they did... that only covers one or two of conditions from the list above and the enemy kinda needs to line them all up for you to regret using the crystal even a little bit.

[FinetalPies]

I focused on Stun because having a party composition vulnerable to forced movement always feels more preventable. But I agree that Move can potentially be even more of a problem.

I think the 20% change in resistance might be more than it seems though. Say you get hit with a stunning attack and your resistance is such that the enemy has a 40% chance of stunning you, with 20% less resistance, those odds have gone from 40% to 60%, that's an increase of 50%, or you're now 1.5x as likely to be stunned by that attack. That's just one example due to nice round numbers, but the increase in chance to be affected is always more than 20%.

Don't get me wrong, none of this outweighs the upside of +2 spd & +8 dodge, but trinkets are meant to have more upside than downside, otherwise too many of them would just go without use, ever.