Why the game is unfair

[Warhawx]

Before you start flaming and trolling, understand that I like everything about the game except the parts I'm about to introduce. These are inconsistent game design philosophies which in turn factor into the "RNG" compliants we are seeing.

First, let's start with traps. You get hit by it/fail to disarm it, you take damage/bleed/blight, and big stress damage. You succeed? Nothing happens. One would at least expect a stress reduction.

Speaking of stress reduction, why is the design for it so inconsistent? Why is it that every time stress goes up, it goes up 4 times (about 20) than any instance where stress would go down? (like, 5 or something).

And dodge. Sometimes I feel like I only hit with half my attacks, despite my characters having 75-80 accuracy while the enemy has 0 dodge, and they still repeatedly dodge anyways. Also the traits. Negative traits should be there to punish players who make a mistake. However, making them appear as a "reward" for finishing the quest is just counter-intuitive.

Furthermore, these traits can be overlapping. Got one trait that says "can only meditate" and "can only pray"? That character will no longer be able to participate in stress-relief activities until you send them to the sanitarium, which is not gauranteed to fix the condition despite the money paid.

The problem with the game isn't that it's difficult, because it's not actually difficult. You make the right combat decisions, keep your torch above 75, manage inventory, money and provisions, and build your guys correctly and possibly avoid interactive items that has a chance to harm you. The problem is, the difficulty is ultimately artifical, hidden behind randomness. You could play perfectly and still lose everything on the whim of the game (even if you can abandon quest, you still lose money/provisions and stress goes up).

[William Shakeshack]

After experimenting with the game a while and getting the hang of it, stress is manageable but I do agree that it would be nice if stress reduction was more common and consistent, like the trap example you mentioned.

[Ottomic]

Stress: because you need stress reduction, higher level heroes, or learn to prepare for having to play with half your party going insane.

Dodge: Because bad luck. My high dodge characters tend to do fairly well, check your diseases and such.

Illnesses: That's what the sanitarium is for.

Conclusion: No, you're frustrated because you are failing dice rolls. Failing dice rolls is one of the first things you need to manage before even thinking about torches.

[Our Lady of Fraudulence]

Traps honestly affect you less and less as you go along. Bring bandages, etc in the early game. By the time you can field a party of Rank 1 characters you'll find traps to actually not affect how a run plays out for you. Stress management is nonessential if you learn to adapt to the various side-effects. Sometimes a character passing the resolve test with a specific bonus can save a run that otherwise would have been a very long, drawn-out failure. I regularly push my mercenaries to the brink of madness for that very reason.

Read the mouseover stats on enemies. Their dodge stat subtracts itself from your character's final ACC stat. This can make some enemies (Courtiers, etc) insanely difficult to hit. As we say in the industry, "working as intended". Negative and positive traits pop up even if you abandon a quest. They're not rewards, they're character development.

This kind of overlapping does bother me from a consistency standpoint but the sanitarium does exist for a reason. It is quite costly but this can be changed by careful heirloom management.

[Casualgamer]

OP, did you missed that topic ?
http://steamcommunity.com/app/262060/discussions/0/612823460253686932/

[Rolfitude]

Using the campfire + campfire skills is the only really consistent way to reduce stress in the dungeon. I'm fine with this, as the stress level acts as a timer for when you have to abort.

[WireDawg]

This game is a rogue like. Accept the fact that you may never beat it. I have started over about 20 times now and think the game is working fine. People just don't understand.

[Cinderella]

The only really good way of stress relieving while adventuring is camping. There's a reason for why the stress is so much higher gained than what you can loose without camping, and that's the urgency it forces. Quests without camping are usually short enough for your heroes to not get too stressed out. Also the higher level the heroes are the less stress they get. And the negative traits most of the time only shows up at heroes getting a relative high ammount of stress during the adventure.

Traits that makes the specific hero only go to one specific stress relief should in my oppinion be barred to only 1. Having 2 specific preferations that prohibits a person from doing anything is counter intuitive, and a big immersion breaker, however a hero having a gambling addiction, but being known as a cheat makes sense.

[WireDawg]

Originally posted by Rolfitude:

Using the campfire + campfire skills is the only really consistent way to reduce stress in the dungeon. I'm fine with this, as the stress level acts as a timer for when you have to abort.

You can also use the Jester.

[Our Lady of Fraudulence]

Originally posted by Cinderella:

Traits that makes the specific hero only go to one specific stress relief should in my oppinion be barred to only 1. Having 2 specific preferations that prohibits a person from doing anything is counter intuitive, and a big immersion breaker, however a hero having a gambling addiction, but being known as a cheat makes sense.

Fully agreed.

[Baarogue]

There are actually several objects you can interact with in dungeons to reduce stress by a lot, if you pack the right supply items.

[x420PraiseIt]

OP, I'm not sure if this is part of Red Hook's design philospohy or what but Stress ios very much the same as the hunger event. Feed the party get 5% healing starve the party take 20% damage, it feels like stress is pretty similar, something causes stress its around 20% something heals stress its more like 5%. I really dislike the inconsistency because it feels like I get relatively nothing for doing well but punished unreasonably hard for making a mistake. I personally think that a better balance would be a flat 10% either way or 10% gain to 15% loss, there are already a lot more ways to get stress than there are to relieve it. It seems like it would maintain the punishing feel but incentivize good play more.

[Our Lady of Fraudulence]

Originally posted by Baarogue:

There are actually several objects you can interact with in dungeons to reduce stress by a lot, if you pack the right supply items.

I'm unaware of these. Mind sharing?

[Baarogue]

Okay guise, bear with me a minute while I pontificate.

Tomorrow, while you go about your daily lives, pay attention to your attitude. When things go the way you expect them to, when nothing bad happens, when you get your way, do you feel uplifted, overjoyed, refreshed? Most likely not. Most of us feel like things /should/ go our way most of the time, so when they do - well that's as the world should be. Well done, World, but nothing special has happened.

But when something /doesn't/ go your way, when they mess up your grill order, when someone cuts you off, when you don't make the light - these are all very trivial events in the greater scheme of things - but how do they make you feel? I know I tend to feel stress disproportionate to the event, and I don't think I'm alone, if the number of road rage occurrences I witness each day are any indication.

That's how I interpret the stress events in the Darkest Dungeon, and how I interpret it when the heroes /don't/ jump up and down for joy just because something /didn't/ stab them this time.

Thank you for your time. :)

[liquidmind]

I think the best description of the problem was, that the initial width of RNG-Variance is too big for starters. It might work well after you upgraded a few things, but in the beginning it's just extreme. Starter-Weapon does 1-12 dmg. With crit that's 1-24. That's 2400% of the minimum, right from the start, first fight.

Considering that you have no money to heal or buy excessive amounts of gear, reducing that a bit in the early game would only improve the game.

The other thing is the Randomizer itself. Currently it seems to be stuck on similar results. An algorithm that produces varying results, not 50% 1dmg, 50% 100%dmg as it often appears to be, RNG-elements would be softened a bit, as it would happen less often that you have good or bad luck several times in a row.

"The game just ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up, I retreat and try another dungeon" might be a successful strategy as a gamer, but it's definitely not a good strategy for a developer. The Times where you run through a dungeon and luck wins or looses everything for you should be at an absolute minimum. It's not "difficult", if your mistakes are cleaned by shear luck. A hard game should be about being able to be proud of yourself when you get through it, not for having stuck with it long enough to finally get lucky.

[vkaraujo]

I don't agree with everything, but i do with most.

1) Traps - Agreed. I do have to say that i have this feeling of missing something when i am able to disarm a trap. Stress reduction, even if small, is a good idea.

2) Stress Reduction - Agreed again. They should be either more common or significant. I know there are ways of reducing stress big time during camp, but most of time it feels insignificant in front of loosing it to attacks, traps, comments of afflicted characters, weak light, stressful objects in your way and about every other thing that can happen during the game.

3) Dodge - I'm on the fence on this one, for now i will remain neutral.

4) Negative traits - I actually like the negative traits in the end of the battle. It is the scar that adventure left on that character. I vote for keeping it.

5) Overlapping Traits - While i don't have a problem with the overlapping traits from a RPG point of view, i do agree it feels bad as a gameplay mechanic. In the least it will be considered as a development mistake, at worst people will call it a cheap way of stretching the game.