Should Flags have more HP?

[Chogathmainop]

Given how their kits seem to work (especially with Exsanguinate and Redeem) it would make sense if they had more HP - given that a maxed out crusader has 61hp, 38 for everyone's favorite bloodbag feels kinda low.

[RopeDrink]

Classes are balanced around HP, SPD, ACC, DMG, etc, with Flag being on the higher end of speed at 6-9, so giving him a humungous health pool on top of above-average accuracy as the most potent bleeder in the game (with huge emergency healing to boot) would be crazy. He's already tanky the way he is and melts foes regardless of base damage.

Flagellant is rock-solid outside of the box, and if you truly wanted to avail of thresholds, you wouldn't want him to be stupendously healthy, as reaching lower thresholds would be less practical (having to eat more punishment to get those bonuses), along with the awkwardness of percentage-based healing on a now larger health pool (topping up easily).

With or without HP tweaks, you are better off ignoring thresholds and playing Flagellant like a normal hero (high health, casually churning out bleeds, and keeping healing for backup/emergency). DBR never was and never will be reliable as a safety net, so keeping him close to death's door for the sake of damage (on a bleed-class) and threshold heals (in a game with no shortage of normal healers who lack those wonky concerns), you are just asking to eat a hit+dot and bleed out during bad RNG.

Flagellant needed nerfs post-release and is still strong after them. The last thing he needs is more health. If you still want to play full-time healer as a Flagellant without worrying about thresholds, consider things like Reclaim + backup ARB/MUS bandage or +Healing-Received trinkets to increase HoT values (seeing as normal +healing potency effects don't work on HoTs like they do regular heals). Given the average health pool, you will also churn out his other heals semi-regularly during intake on top.

[Velvet Waltz]

even balance discussion aside, I fail to see how this makes sense. the concept of this hero is that he wants to sit at low hp% to become more powerful and you want to give him straight up more hp?

[Justice]

Flagelant (+shield breaker) - is the most broken, stupidly OP class.
If anything Flag needs a lot of nerf and rework, not making even more stronger than he already is

Originally posted by Can Throne:

even balance discussion aside, I fail to see how this makes sense. the concept of this hero is that he wants to sit at low hp% to become more powerful and you want to give him straight up more hp?

His low hp skill ability activates based on % of max hp, not the static number. Which means he can activate his ability earlier with higher max hp and not going dangriously low in hp in terms of numbers.

[Nibbs]

There are various pros and cons to Flag having high and low HP. I think it comes down to him being on such a HP rollercoaster. If he had really high HP, then it would take longer for him to reach his low HP buffs, but it would be super OP to so easily restore all of it in one move. His total HP is not a big deal because he's immune to the Death's Door debuff. Flag is free to ping pong back and forth between alive and dying with no adverse effects. He gets a little extra deathblow resistance to compensate. It's everyone's favorite joke to say that DBR is a meme, yet higher numbers in this stat are objectively better.

[Velvet Waltz]

Originally posted by Justice:

Flagelant (+shield breaker) - is the most broken, stupidly OP class.
If anything Flag needs a lot of nerf and rework, not making even more stronger than he already is

Originally posted by Can Throne:

even balance discussion aside, I fail to see how this makes sense. the concept of this hero is that he wants to sit at low hp% to become more powerful and you want to give him straight up more hp?

His low hp skill ability activates based on % of max hp, not the static number. Which means he can activate his ability earlier with higher max hp and not going dangriously low in hp in terms of numbers.

yes, exactly. so it would take more damage to get to that threshold, which would go against his "high stakes" design philosophy. I do agree it's already totally busted though.

[Demethrite]

Originally posted by Justice:

Flagelant (+shield breaker) - is the most broken, stupidly OP class.
If anything Flag needs a lot of nerf and rework, not making even more stronger than he already is

His low hp skill ability activates based on % of max hp, not the static number. Which means he can activate his ability earlier with higher max hp and not going dangriously low in hp in terms of numbers.

Going dangerously low hp is the whole point of this class. He's a high risk/reward type of guy, he gets stronger the more risk you're willing to take with his maximum buffs at death's door. He should get debuffs above 50%hp and even more at full to encourage taking risks.

Not only having higher trigger hp remove part of that risky style but also buff the most ridiculous heals in the game (%hp healing)

[No One]

FLG base acc is 115, which means he doesn't need +acc trinkets. He can take +HP.
The first soft acc cap is at 116, meaning he only needs to pay the +bleed trinket tax.

38 HP is an awkward spot. Most crit machines crit for 20, meaning when he gets crit he isn't low enough to heal himself, but is low enough to meet death's door in one hit. Without +HP, his self-heals are largely boss-only. Your actual healer should heal him anyway. If exsanguinate misses (only 110 acc) it doesn't heal him, so that's right out, and nobody else will need healing when the FLG does, so redeem is kinda silly.

+15% hp puts him at 44. Now you can let him linger after he gets hit, and fish for a ex/redeem proc. Conveniently, the flesh's heart not only adds 15% hp, it also makes him immune to his own bleed, so he can reclaim with impunity.
Or you can use the tooth, for 46 HP.
Even +10 puts him at 42. Tough FLG FTW. Specifically, tough FLG with glass shard and ancestor's scroll. Unlimited power.

Alt: use the COM trinket so that 20 damage puts him below 40% and he can heal himself immediately.
The trinket is very nice in the ruins, where otherwise his damage is vestal-tier, less the range. E.g. husk ichor + resurrection's collar.
Other characters get quest-long debuffs if they hit 0 HP. The FLG does an AOE heal and then exsanguinates for 140% damage due to inherent character traits, including +5 acc which fixes exsanguinate. The COM trinket would be utter trash on any other hero.
Conveniently, this dynamic even works on a tough FLG, so locking tough doesn't nerf this ruins synergy. He only needs to go down by 15% max HP to hit that magic number

That said, you can just give him a map instead and have your actual healer heal him. Suffer is basically battle meds, one of the best skills in the game. Punish-sorrow-endure-suffer => massive damage, massive utility.



https://steamcommunity.com/app/1940340/discussions/0/594011345717852715/

Rather than thinking about what pairs well together, have a theme or goal for the party. Generally, pick something that sounds fun, then do whatever you need to make it work.

Here's an unkillable party: VES-GR-CRU-FLG. Nobody much cares if they get hit. Party steak, for it is a wall of meat.

Maybe you decide your theme is [holy lance] so the CRU gets range. CRU-HWM-DST-FLG. If you try it and there's some hole in the strategy, swap the duelist out for whoever addresses it. Perhaps you like someone thematically, so they get the spot.

You can also just throw in the overpowered version of every role, PD-JES-HWM-FLG. Alchemist PD in particular.