Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

Vezi statistici:
Is the Crusader class trash tier?
In all my team combos, my crusader keeps taking the L, literally, Loss after loss, I just can't seem to make it work. Anyone have any advice?
< >
Se afișează 16-30 din 45 comentarii
I already told you to put him in rank 4. With 2, put them in 3 and 4. The other 2, I wouldn't run with two crusaders, but you could make it work. Could..

The important question is, how did you use the characters? Another, better question - why would you even take them to a fight not knowing how you were going to use them? If you went in like that, you were the one who was supposed to decide what skills you could use with the positions you put them in. I never use an arbalest out of rank 4, but again, anything is possible. If I were to run two crusaders in 3 and 4, I'd want someone who could dance around them, like a highwayman, jester, or a graverobber, so that the crusaders will always be at the back. With the team you took...?

Edit I'm assuming you had the crusaders both up front, the occ in 3rd, and arb in 4th?
Editat ultima dată de Narrowmind; 2 ian. la 14:20
Vvulf is a tough fight. And is kind of it's own issue.

With a Crusader, I'm most likely to give him a Paralyzer's Crest and a Dazzling Charm and stick him in R1 (although there are better trinkets as the game goes on). I'm likely to equip Stunning Blow, Zealous Accusation, Holy Lance and Inspiring Cry (depending on your party, you might want to swap out Zealous Accusation for Battle Heal, although don't expect top performance from Battle Heal without some better healing trinkets). Mainly, his job is to stun something. Every turn. Occasionally, near the end of battles, I'll use Inspiring Cry on the most stressed member of the party. Of if they're about to hit 50 stress.

He can do whatever he needs to do in R2 as well, and having Holy Lance equipped means he's still effective offensively from R3 and R4 as well. Battle Heal and Inspiring Cry both work fine in R3 and R4 ... if that's why you brought him. But if he's in the back healing, then he should have healing trinkets equipped.

I never use an Arbalest except in R4. She can do a fair amount of damage from back there, but is going to benefit from a mark, which takes time to set up; time you might not have in the Vvulf fight. She's also a decent healer as well and gives a Healing buff.

The Occultist can be a bit fragile for the Vvulf fight although his curse and mark skills can be useful.

Man-at-Arms is a strong choice for the fight; Bounty Hunter, Flagellant, Hellion, Leper are all also good. Although both the Leper and the Hellion will want R1, so don't bring both at the same time.

Depending on who else you bring, a Vestal might be good, she won't do as much damage, but does have the most powerful (physical) heals.
Postat inițial de RopeDrink:
Overall, Crusader is dead centre of the tier-list, right where most heroes should be in a balanced game.
cap

If Crusader isn't S-tier then nothing is.
Postat inițial de Narrowmind:
I already told you to put him in rank 4. With 2, put them in 3 and 4. The other 2, I wouldn't run with two crusaders, but you could make it work. Could..

The important question is, how did you use the characters? Another, better question - why would you even take them to a fight not knowing how you were going to use them? If you went in like that, you were the one who was supposed to decide what skills you could use with the positions you put them in. I never use an arbalest out of rank 4, but again, anything is possible. If I were to run two crusaders in 3 and 4, I'd want someone who could dance around them, like a highwayman, jester, or a graverobber, so that the crusaders will always be at the back. With the team you took...?

Edit I'm assuming you had the crusaders both up front, the occ in 3rd, and arb in 4th?
Order: Back --> Front
Crusader, Arbelest, Occultist, Crusader

Using Arb/Occ as healers.
Crusader is a versatile frontline hero that has great synergy with moving heroes like HWM and MaA. Inspiring cry is incredible and holy lance is a close second. He can hit from any position in most scenarios. In the low chance that he can't, just use inspiring cry. His best camping ability is probably stand tall for removing mortality debuffs. The other ones are stress reduction which I find to be situational or redundant if you have a jester.

I run crusader in the 1st or 2nd position using smite, stunning blow, holy lance, and inspiring cry with great results (fantastic for fighting shamblers). My trinkets focus on boosting damage to unholy which is great for ruins.
Overall, Crusader isn't OP like HWM, but he has two exceptionally strong abilities that allow him to be a flexible frontline damage dealer


If you're struggling with Wulf, it's because he's one of the harder bosses in the game...
My team comp for Wulf (in order) was
Occultist>Jester>MaA>Leper
MaA is very important for this fight in order to guard people from the bomb. You could potentially try replacing leper with crusader. You might lose some damage, but crusader could support heal MaA which is more reliable than just using occultist. I didn't lose anyone in that fight, but I had to heal MaA from death's door multiple times.
Don't forget to max armor, weapons, and skills before the fight. Good luck!
Editat ultima dată de billyburns32; 3 ian. la 0:35
You took level 4's to Vvulf? That's suicide, mate. No way you were gonna win like that. He's a champion level boss. You need at least fully upgraded level 5's at a bare minimum, preferably level 6's with a decent trinket inventory and team composition.
Postat inițial de hltv:
Postat inițial de RopeDrink:
Overall, Crusader is dead center of the tier-list, right where most heroes should be in a balanced game.
cap

If Crusader isn't S-tier then nothing is.

You say that as if Crusader being the epitome of balance is a bad thing. His primary strength is providing almost everything other heroes can do with lower potency for balance. That versatility is excellent, but it is not as tangible nor game-breaking as specialist strengths and is only as powerful as your want or need for gap-filling.

ACC and SPD are king across the board, with CRU being the slowest hero with bog-average accuracy. He has access to almost everything you could want from an entire team - but excels beyond nobody at anything. His camping is good, but does much the same as other heroes at a higher cost or a lower potency.

While up-front, he cannot reach beyond R2, and from the back, CRU couldn't reach below R3 until the COM rework -- meaning his positioning and flexibility hinges primarily on support. As such, his attacks can oft feel lackluster, in a game where it is better to strangle intake rather than sustain through it or whack strict ranks slowly.

The entire strength of Crusader is that he can be slotted anywhere within any team and do well, but that doesn't make him S-Tier -- not when specialists and tailored counter-play are what truly breaks the game (eg. hyper-fast, hyper-accurate PDs taking a steaming dump on 95% of content just by spamming one button from prime position). A Crusader cannot carry even nearly as hard due to being more support-centric (in a game where support takes a considerable backseat compared to aggression).

Again, Crusader is smack-dab in the middle, and that's a 'good' thing. It's where you want all heroes to be in a balanced game, and it's stupendously easy to draw a lot of value from them because they can fit anywhere, do mostly everything, and play with everyone.
Editat ultima dată de RopeDrink; 3 ian. la 10:01
Postat inițial de Nibbs:
You took level 4's to Vvulf? That's suicide, mate. No way you were gonna win like that. He's a champion level boss. You need at least fully upgraded level 5's at a bare minimum, preferably level 6's with a decent trinket inventory and team composition.
now you tell me. :stress:
Postat inițial de RopeDrink:
blah blah blah
For a someone spending every day of his life in this antiquity of a forum one could exect you to have much wider perspective of what makes class "strong".

Let me spell it out then:
There is no advantage to playing with less than the maximum allowed limit of heroes in your party. With that in mind, by the virtue of this being a team-oriented game, any class having synergy with the other three is naturally "stronger" than the one synergizing mainly with itself.

DD is a game about maximizing your chance of success after all.

In general, early-game is too luck oriented.
As such, the best perspective of judgement is to be set on characters at their strongest, with all trinkets/abilities unlocked and CC in full effect.


Clearing those conditions out of the way, let's get to the business:
Lack of accuracy (of CRU) can be fixed with various means, mainly trinkets such as focus ring or the other classes, jester being one example. I've never truly struggled with consecutive misses on CRU outside of ruins, but that's universal to every class.
On top of that, the lack of speed can be patched with an amalgam of quirks. They are not exactly uncommon to come across, and they are the best source of bonus SPD.

On the other hand, there are weaknesses that cannot be fixed by any means, partially: the raw damage.
Unlike the other stats, dmg applies multiplicatively and stacks additively.
Meaning that a character with 13 base dmg will never reach dps of character with base of 26.
The same applies to healing and that's why PD is not self-sustainable due to too low base values.
His DoTs simply do not compare to raw dps. So while PD can stun the target, he can't kill it.

And last of all, positional requirements cannot be altered. So while PD wastes a whole turn after being shuffled to R1, Crusader suffers from no such shame by being able to cycle between the lance and the smite.

To sum it all off:
Crusader is an S-class by being universal and having neglectable weaknesses.
While PD has downsides that are not neglectable and have to be covered by different means.
In a wild encounter from the pack of Supplicants your PD is going to be more useless then the Leper in a Hag fight.

Overall Crusader has less weakness then the couterpart(s) hence why S ranking is more then warrented.


If anything the so-called "specialist" are the ones who are truly weak. Mostly because no "speciality" is able to pull it's own weight in this gaem (ofc lone expectation being Vestal and the healing).
They lack the versitilty to pull trough the worst-case-scenarions in the Darkest Dungeon™.
Editat ultima dată de hltv; 3 ian. la 13:27
Honestly, player skill is what dictates viability or S-ranking. the toons are just that, toons. It's the same with fighting games.
Editat ultima dată de Holografix; 3 ian. la 12:51
Most people usually mean twitch reflexes when they refer to "skill" in a game. Whereas this is a turn-based game that's entirely focused on knowledge.

The Crusader is (as I and others have said) the Jack-of-All-Trades. He's good (but not great) at almost everything. Meaning he can fill just about any primary roll.
I would consider skill the successful application of knowledge. Also, am I the only one to point out the level issue or am I missing something here?
Postat inițial de Nibbs:
I would consider skill the successful application of knowledge. Also, am I the only one to point out the level issue or am I missing something here?
youre not missing anything. you've given me the best practical advice so far. no level 4s for Wulf. everything else is fanboy/girl/ing or theory.
Postat inițial de Holografix:
Postat inițial de Nibbs:
I would consider skill the successful application of knowledge. Also, am I the only one to point out the level issue or am I missing something here?
youre not missing anything. you've given me the best practical advice so far. no level 4s for Wulf. everything else is fanboy/girl/ing or theory.
It's not really theory... The game warns you ahead of time that Vvulf is champion level. For any boss, you know ahead of time the maximum level allowed, and really, don't test it. If you can send 2s, max, make sure you send 2s. If you can send 4s, max, make sure you send 4s. And above all else, if something says it's champion, you very well better make sure you send 4 level 6s, and for all of these standards, make sure the skills you plan to use and the associated equipment is maxed. It's already going to be really tough - don't take any chances.
< >
Se afișează 16-30 din 45 comentarii
Per pagină: 1530 50