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You choose running away instead of simply explaining what you attempted to say to someone who you are purporting to be your intellectual inferior? That's a very good call given the facts.
Your post history was enlightening, by the way.
p.s. How the heck do you have 2,648.6 hours in The Phantom Pain? You play it all the way through 200 or 300 times?
Sorry, but I'm neither hiding nor appealing to anything. Again, it is simply how the game works. When it comes to the worth of the duo during the early game, the starting heroes, much like various backer heroes, weigh better than a majority of random possibilities churned out by Coach RNG, and even in the rare moments where something equal or better arrives, Reynauld and Dismas are already on their way to L2, compared to that L0.
→ They have great quirks.
→ They have great synergy.
→ They have good camping.
→ They have good baselines.
→ They have a resolve advantage.
→ Excluding Kleptomania, even their negative quirks are worth keeping.
→ One can be a stress-healing torch, saving major resources during EG barracks-fill.
→ One provides free provisions (&) modifiers relevant to a zone you are forced to play.
→ They will later form one of the best generalist catch-all comps in the game by default.
Both are stupidly flexible - at a time when you have an empty barracks and will greatly benefit from having comp-flexible options on tap, particularly healers and stress healers, which can prevent the need for Hamlet facilities (saving idle heroes and gold) and raise your chance of positive post-dungeon quirks.
From Week 5, almost all members of the Usual Suspects can carry dud weeks or weak wagon selections, with Crusader being a literal 4-man team wrapped into a single slot, capable of living full-time in any position or comp, in a game where it's entirely possible to get stuck with little-to-no support or less-desirable recruits for weeks on end.
CRU and FLA are the only two heroes capable of managing both the health & stress of others by themselves, so starting with one and getting them to Week 5 can be massive, especially when your Coach is not cooperating. With Reynauld in your pocket, even if he takes time out to deal with Klepto, they will equal (if not stay ahead) all other recruits and single-handedly dilute support needs for the foreseeable future no matter what else arrives, all while being very favorable in the most spammed zone at that point.
All of the above are facts, and even when sticking to basics alone, they are blatantly worth keeping, and that's before you consider the more technical or variable aspects, such as how they save you money, how they lessen unavoidable early-game RNG, working well for both light and torchless runs, their compositional uses, etc.
Aside from Reynauld being better off after one trip to the Sanitarium, dismissing either of them or letting them die is a blatant disservice, no matter how big or small one might value said advantages (or who prefers what), and the fact we can win just fine by throwing them aside doesn't change that.
You can keep them, you can disband them, and you can let them die - and in the grand scheme of things, you can still win either way - but you are objectively better off keeping them. That's just how it is.
If you can make your point without the word, why are you using it? Nothing of what you're claiming is 'objective' or true based on 'objectivity.' Any person can wipe on 2nd week with Rey and Dis in party thus upending your whole argument, so why cling to the word?
You're definitely misusing the word, and it's completely superfluous now. I think you're now just braying to the crowd instead of engaging with me so I'll not engage with you anymore. Enjoy Darkest Dungeon!
Except it doesn't address the argument at all, much like your other comments focusing on vocabulary instead of the game.
Here, I'll re-quote:
"Aside from Reynauld being better off after one trip to the Sanitarium, dismissing either of them or letting them die is a blatant disservice, no matter how big or small one might value said advantages (or who prefers what), and the fact we can win just fine by throwing them aside doesn't change that."
You are essentially saying: "Well, they can die, and it'll be k", which is true - but doesn't alter the fact that a player is still better off keeping them alive and present for the early game (which is the whole point), and the long list of reasons why will remain unchanged no matter how many circles we tread or how you feel about the word 'objective'.
Reynauld and Dismas are consistently underrated (not overrated), and much like backer heroes, they outweigh a hefty amount of random alternatives, not to mention having a headstart on resolve, which is one of the most important elements of squashing early RNG.
They will later form one of the most competent catch-all gap-covering teams in the game within the first few weeks to tide you over, and while you don't need them to win, there is no practical reason to get rid of them unless you merely prefer it (or they flat-out die), which is fine, but like them or not, the player is better off keeping them alive and active.
Your contribution? You mean constantly harping about the word objective and not actually addressing the topic at hand? Yeah, that doesn't really count as a contribution to the discussion about these two specific starting characters.
RopeDrink is correct here which, unfortunately for you, means that you are not. RopeDrink not misusing any words, but you certainly are. I am also not sure why you can't bring yourself to move beyond claims of misusing certain words but my guess is that it's because you don't have any other ammunition to work with to support your side of the discussion.
RopeDrink is not "braying to the crowd." They are directly engaging with you but you're doing the same thing you did with our conversation - running away because you've lost.
Oh, and someone "wiping" on week 2 doesn't upend RopeDrink's argument at all, isn't actually relevant to the conversation in any way, shape, or form.
Indeed. As the saying goes, you can win with Quad Antiquarians if you wish, and as mentioned many times, you can kill or discard Reynauld and Dismas and win just fine -- but that has no bearing when the point is about the benefits of avoiding that scenario, which far outweighs whatever benefits one can cook up for dismissing or killing Reynauld and Dismas, hence you are objectively better off keeping them.
Excluding the desire to simply use other heroes, the kill/disband route boils down to saving yourself one trip to the Sanitarium to get rid of Klepto, and while that is understandable, you're better off just removing it now that Reynauld is pushing toward level 2 and a free ticket to Apprentice stomps, at a time where healers, soothers, stunners, and flex-picks may be in very short supply while you're trying to fill the barracks.
Early-game specifically, you are forced to play the Ruins - where Crusaders have an inherent bread-and-butter bonus against the majority of its enemies (UNHOLY), with Reynauld having Warrior of Light to boot, meaning a (combined) free +25-35% damage boost to his L0-2 starting Smite, not to mention passively coughing up Holy Water to use on Urns or saving you torches once he acquires Inspiring Cry.
By the time those elements become less relevant due to a more fleshed-out barracks and more heroes leveling up, he'll still be equal or ahead on resolve than most (or all), and with a better quirk-based start than a humungous portion of what the coach can cook up via RNG.
People have continued to underestimate Crusaders for donkey's years, often from the angle of potency (eg. Jester is a better stress-healer, Vestal is a better healer, etc -- which is entirely true -- but without accounting for simple things like Crusader fulfilling the role of JESTAL simultaneously using half the slots, having higher baselines (DMG/HP), better compositional flex, and various other less tangible and more variable elements, particularly during the early-game, where getting Reynauld to week 5 and unlocking his support kit goes a long way towards dragging any random concoction of heroes kicking and screaming to victory with greater comfort by himself).
Rey+Dis are rock-solid together, be it early-game, or strolling from the tutorial straight to the final Darkest Dungeon with nothing but your first four starting heroes. Again, the Usual Suspects are perhaps the best generic catch-all generalist team in the game, and getting those four to a Week-5 guild and unlocking + upgrading their optimal skills can take the steamiest of dumps on the entire rest of the game.
You don't have to, of course, but when the only answer for RNG during the early game is leveling up skills while you fumble around for trinkets before Veteran, there's not much better than cementing a quick L2 Usual Suspects and having them laugh at whatever the Embark screen can muster until you have overcome the early-game slump and begin to press into Veteran with a fleshed barracks and a broader trinket pool.
Having said all that: when it comes to more subjective elements, both Reynauld and Dismas are pretty darn cool in DD1 and only get cooler in DD2. For those who care, they're also pretty strong from an in-verse battle-edit perspective (if anyone cares about that sort of thing). When you account for stats, mechanics, and lore across both games, Dismas, but particularly Reynauld, is hard to beat.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3344897356
Behave yourselves
No problem! Have a great day.
Exactly. RopeDrink has been correct all along.
They clearly had the (smart) idea for a game where damage to the front was easy and cheap, and damage to the back was difficult or expensive to get. The PBS/wicked.slice/pistol.shot hierarchy.
However, they didn't retain this philosophy. Arbalest, lel. FLG, durhurrhurr. Houndmaster, lmao.
Dismas pays for having range/assassination abilities in pistol shot by forgoing almost all utility, except nobody else on the roster still pays a premium for this capacity. In theory he does exceptional direct damage, but direct damage just isn't that valuable in DD. Also ripostes conflict with the most OP OP broken mechanic in the game. If I throw a HWM into one my parties, d.advance is foolish as he'll riposte maybe four times in a whole long dungeon. He has a whole laundry list of niggling issues on top of this.
He's not good, it's just that the game is easy. Still fun tho. His trinkets are OP and patch things up. His lack of utility means his action bar doesn't feel cramped.
ARB, HM, FLG? Okay, ARB-HM-HWM-FLG. There you go.
Exception: if you're playing in the dark and want anti-shambler "utility" then Dismas is exactly your pick.
Indeed. He is without a doubt the absolute best pick for dismantling Shamblers - thanks to two-way mobility, flexible range/positioning, a clapper pop (PBS) or clapper anti-prot (Open Vein), and of course, Riposte, which is guaranteed to proc every single round.
There are only two ripostes, HWM having the best -- and It may start to drop in value outside of Shamblers -- but there's still no shortage of AoE trash and AoE bosses to keep it for, assuming you never want to DA-R3 during trash fights just in case an enemy might bother to hit him afterwards. There's also the underappreciated fact that most stress nukes and various other detrimental effects will not activate if a Riposte dunks them in the process.
Your opinions of HWM are one of the very few things I always tend to disagree with you on.
Camp-wise, HWM has anti-ambush, one of the better stress dumps, and a chance to emphasize melee (+SPD, ACC, DMG) or range (ACC, DMG, CRIT), coupled with his obnoxious melee or ranged-centric trinkets. Damage may only be 4th or 5th in the list of stat priorities overall (given how little you need to comfortably wreck the game), but when you want it, he slaps -- and from most positions, vs most targets, with greater ease and synergies than most heroes. When it comes to pure damage dealers, he's both flexible and customizable.
He is one of few with two-directional mobility, and while PBS is R1 exclusive, it's one of the harder-hitting buttons in the game, be it for memes, or for sorting himself or others (like HEL/LEP wanting R1) -- and with 9-16 @ -15% on buttons like Open Vein, he's very good at anti-protting what you don't want to tap with PBS or Slice, stripping res for other bleeders.
He has the best of the two Ripostes in the game - best against Shamblers, as you say, but not terrible outside of that, given it's tied to a decent-hitting R3 mobile poke. Given his above-average speed, Aim isn't the worst anti-stealth, and while AoE, in general, falls flat in this game, he has one of the better options there too (Grape).
Ultimately, Highwayman - much like Crusader - can play full-time from all positions and against most targets (except as projection from R1), complete with high damage, above-average health, above-average speed, good bleed, good camping, good mobility, good trinkets, etc - plenty to say he's "good" - his main weakness being a lack of support compared to most others. Still, I would personally take HWM over most raw-damage alternatives any day (mobility, flex, bleed, projection, at decent speed/damage).
As for Dismas specifically, starting with +2 SPD, extra stun-res, and having one of the most negligible bad quirks is a great start, thus getting rid of him or letting him die is wasteful.