Max. Dodge / Evasion Chance capped at 90%?!

[DarkSkay]

After a small test with 4 identical Men-at-Arms I am pretty sure your heroes can't get invulnerable by stacking dodge!

Test summary: four Level 0 Men-at-Arms all buffed with "Bolster" and "Tactics" camping skill. One Bone Rabble enemy, which according to Wiki has 40-ish accuracy. The monster has landed 3 hits and made 37 misses. So 3 hits out of 40.

(Side note: for this test I expected all 4 MAA to have identical dodge values, instead the tooltip values jumped erraticly between 60 and 95 doge. Looks like a bug)

Assumption: there is a minumim hit chance of 10%. Why 10%? Above sample is not large enough to tell, but the same number is used in the opposite context: No matter what, there is always a minimum evasion chance of 10%. Even if e.g. your doge value is 0 and the monster's accuracy 120 you still evade 10% of attacks.

Capping hit chance at both ends makes sense. This would mean hit chance is always a number between 10% and 90%.

BTW from a gameplay perspective parties with 2 or 3 Men-at-Arms (~130 dodge) and around 90% evasion chance still look ridiculously overpowered. While DoTs are still dangerous, regular monster attacks would only have 3.3% chance to land a death blow on a 0 HP hero!

Does somebody know confirmed numbers? Can you test a 130 dodge party?

[algothi]

Give an enemy a defensive rating of +100, then see what the base chance to hit them is in the tool tips.

[Satoru]

Same reason that DeathBlow resist is capped. So you can't stack trinkets/skills and be invincible

[radfaw]

Its very difficult to get every one of your party members to 130 dodge, unless you used 4 graverobbers with evasive quirks and the highest dodge trinkets, spamming shadow fade and toxin trickery. As far as i know, yeah, dodge is still capped at 90% because that 10% chance to hit on a grave robber i had with 122 dodge, has gotten hit once out of maybe.... 60 rounds of enemy combat. (only counting when she had 122 dodge or higher)

[Magniff]

Hmm, interesting.
Im pretty shure the "Bone Rabblel" coresponds to Skeleton_common_A in the config files.
According to this config, it's normal attack features an Accuracy of 62.5.
Since your MaA's dodge values were shifting between 60 and 95 (I guess that shifting was related to the expiration of some buffs), the Bone Rabbel occasionaly had a small chance to hit at 2.5 %.

Assuming the MaA's Dodge values were fixed at 60, the Expected number of hits in 40 attempts is one hit.
But, as your displayed dodge values were fluctuating between 60 and 95, it's probably solid to assume an even lower number of expected hits.
In contrast, your suggested 10 % automatic hit mechanic would provide us with 4 expected hits in 40 attempts.

Well, your sample really isn't that big, but it's certainly big enough to support your suggested
10 % automatic hit mechanic.
(Even without actually calculating the probability of 3 or more hits in 40 attempts at 2.5 %.)
Therefore we can probably add another rule (Nr. 5),
to the known hit evaluation mechanics of DD.
(See below, since it seems you're not entirely familiar with those rules ;) )


1. Chance to hit is calculated as: ACC - Dodge in %.
Let's say, your ACC is 85 and your opponents dodge is 30, your actuall chance to hit is:
85 - 30 = 55 %.
2. If the RNG rolls a greater number than your actuall ACC value, it's displayed as a "Miss".
(In our example that's any number abobve 85)
3. If the RNG rolls a number greater than your chance to Hit but smaller as your actuall ACC it's displayed as a "Dodge".
(In our example thats any number from 56 to 85.)
4. Max chance to Hit is capped at 90 %. Hence, whatever your actuall chance to hit is, whenever the RNG rolls any number above 90, it's a "Miss".
5. (IF YOUR ASSUMPTION IS CORRECT) Whenever the RNG rolls a smaller number than 11, it's an automatic "Hit".

[DarkSkay]

Now I realize this test wasn't conclusive at all. According to http://darkestdungeon.gamepedia.com/Bone_Rabble the Bone Rabble has two low accuracy attacks, one with 62.5% accuracy and the other with 42.5%. I chose this monster, since I expected both attacks to be way lower than my fully buffed dodge.

MAA armor level 0 dodge = 5, 4x "Tactics" = +40, plus a maximum of 12 stacks of "Bolster" at +5 dodge each = +60

What I expected is to see a constant 105 dodge on all four MAA, while spamming Bolster. Nice and logic: 105/105/105/105. Should not fluctuate at all unless I'd missclick and pass a turn or something.

Instead what was displayed was like: 85/80/90/70 then next round 65/75/70/70 then 80/70/80/90 etc. Just strange behaviour! As I understand it Bolster gives all your party members one stack for 3 rounds. Maybe there is a bug related to which hero you click, which in theory should not matter at all.

To make it short, this test was garbage.

Will need more testing or ideally a confirmed source explaining how it works.

[Magniff]

No reason to dispair!

I've allready repeated your test, using a modified config-file for the "Bone Rabbel"
(as suggested by algothi).

I've raised its dodge to 300 and tryed to hit it (Tooltip told me, chance to hit is 0 %).
Guess what, it took me around 12 attempts until I actually hit it.

There is definitely a hidden mechanic, granting free hits!
And a 10 % chance as described in rule nr. 5 of my previous post,
seems to fit very well!

[The Unseeing Eye]

Curious question: How does the "Fated" trait fit into this? It seems like that the trait is designed to come outside of the normal combat algorithm.

[Magniff]

@biggs279
Watch here:
Fated quirk

[Seraphiel]

Being able to mod Darkest Dungeon probably explains why so many players are bragging about their maxed out heroes and how easy Darkest Dungeon is. This is probably also why Red Hook keeps raising the difficulty bar which is unfortunate for those of us who play the game normally without trainers, cheats, or exploits.

[Nequis]

Originally posted by Satoru:

Same reason that DeathBlow resist is capped. So you can't stack trinkets/skills and be invincible

Well out of 14 heroes that i lost to complete all levels bosses,13 died first death door check,included my resolve 6 leper who was double critted for 32 damage by...some spiders before i even got my turn.

So even if death blow resist was uncapped,i fairly doubt any hero would be invincible. If the RNG wants to kill you,it will,no turns or resistance for you.


(Also i think they should tweak/fix them,friggin spiders are bosses while actual bosses are cakewalks wannabes)

[FDru]

Originally posted by Seraphiel:

Being able to mod Darkest Dungeon probably explains why so many players are bragging about their maxed out heroes and how easy Darkest Dungeon is. This is probably also why Red Hook keeps raising the difficulty bar which is unfortunate for those of us who play the game normally without trainers, cheats, or exploits.

Cool story but no, you're still wrong and most of us calling the game easy play legit, start over with every patch and know what the ♥♥♥♥ we're talking about.

[Seraphiel]

Originally posted by FDru:

Cool story but no, you're still wrong and most of us calling the game easy play legit, start over with every patch and know what the ♥♥♥♥ we're talking about.

That may be true of you, but if everyone starts over with each update why are so many bragging about thier legendary heroes? It's simply not that easy to max heroes stats when starting from scratch.

[Magniff]

Originally posted by Seraphiel:

Originally posted by FDru:

Cool story but no, you're still wrong and most of us calling the game easy play legit, start over with every patch and know what the ♥♥♥♥ we're talking about.

That may be true of you, but if everyone starts over with each update why are so many bragging about thier legendary heroes? It's simply not that easy to max heroes stats when starting from scratch.

Well, I've started an entirely new campain with the haunt and corpse update.
My old campain from March suffered from an invalid roster composition (was valid back then).
Additionally I wanted to be able to fight all the new bosses, since this old campain was allready to advanced to do so (all heroes at least at lvl 5).
The average level of my current roster is around lvl 3.

I only modify files to test stuff.

Well, if I rally get utterly annoyed by the high protection foes in champion dungeons, I might consider doing my own little mod on the issue (I highly doubt I would really do it).
But I obviously won't go on and tell everyone how easy champion dungeons are -
that would be totally crackbrained, wouldn't it?

Have a wonderful Day! :)