Getting crit constantly in Level 5 Dungeons...any general tips for these?

[Optional Guy]

I've done 2 level 5 missions in my current save and both times I've had to retreat because of the constant crits. And when I say constant I really mean constant. Every 2 or 3 hits the enemies get a crit.

And if an AoE occurs it always crits at least one person. I'm not trying to complain, I know what this game is about and how it screws you but getting crit this often I really can't do anything, I certainly can't outheal the damage and I can't kill enemies quick enough without them doing disgusting amounts of damage to me anyways.

Maybe I should be trying more stuns but even then, I still feel like the enemies' shouldn't be critting this often. Does going into the mission with level 4 armor and weapons have anything to do with it? The first level 5 mission I definitely feel like I was under-prepared but the second time I prepared as well as I could, upgraded everyone as much as I could, up to level 4.

[Pothocket]

Yes, your characters are not leveled enough. Bringing them up to level 5 with level 5 skills/gear will bring everything back in line to where it should be.

[Optional Guy]

Originally posted by Pothocket:

Yes, your characters are not leveled enough. Bringing them up to level 5 with level 5 skills/gear will bring everything back in line to where it should be.

Just to be clear btw, their Resolve level is 5, it's just their equipment and skills that aren't at level 5. But ok, I'll make sure to level up all their stuff first before I start tackling these and see how it goes.

[algothi]

Yeah, the only thing level determines is Resist chances and max equipment level. Damage and HP are all equipment based, ACC and skill effects are all Skill Rank based. Running heroes through dungeons they are not properly equipped for is incredibly dangerous.

[Optional Guy]

Originally posted by algothi:

Yeah, the only thing level determines is Resist chances and max equipment level. Damage and HP are all equipment based, ACC and skill effects are all Skill Rank based. Running heroes through dungeons they are not properly equipped for is incredibly dangerous.

Yeah, the game has changed quite a bit, I used to be able to go to level 5 dungeons with level 4 equipment as far as I remember. Now I just get destroyed :P I'll make sure to level them up. I've been really wanting to go to level 5 dungeons so yeah..

[Sareth]

Certain enemies just crit like billy-o (I'm looking at you, bone arbalest). It shouldn't be THAT extreme though... perhaps bad luck, in a small sample it can appear to be more common than it is overall.
Giving your chars the full treatment in equip and skills will certainy help a bunch, both from the damage output, as well as overall dodge/HP

[Baywatch]

You don't really need to have level 5 gear, it'll definitely help a lot but it shouldn't be stopping you from making progress in champion runs. It is possible to start weeding them out before they start doing a lot of damage but, you only have a very small selection of characters if you want to do that. Mainly the ones that pack a crap ton of direct damage and with a fair amount of damage, crit, and speed modifiers.

If you don't want to go that route, stun is your next best friend so build for speed and stun chance on the appropriate characters. A few debuffs can also pay off at times (most aren't worth the effort) if you get them to a point that they can reliably land, which I know is a lot easier said then done for a lot of classes in champion dungeons.

Play the game as if every enemy attack is going to be a crit. If you aren't stopping most attacks from geting through then you need to rethink your approach or your party composition.

[Optional Guy]

Originally posted by Baywatch:

You don't really need to have level 5 gear, it'll definitely help a lot but it shouldn't be stopping you from making progress in champion runs. It is possible to start weeding them out before they start doing a lot of damage but, you only have a very small selection of characters if you want to do that. Mainly the ones that pack a crap ton of direct damage and with a fair amount of damage, crit, and speed modifiers.

If you don't want to go that route, stun is your next best friend so build for speed and stun chance on the appropriate characters. A few debuffs can also pay off at times (most aren't worth the effort) if you get them to a point that they can reliably land, which I know is a lot easier said then done for a lot of classes in champion dungeons.

Play the game as if every enemy attack is going to be a crit. If you aren't stopping most attacks from geting through then you need to rethink your approach or your party composition.

My first save I got a good amount of speed altering trinkets that allowed me to really plan out who is gonna go first in my groups to apply debuffs, marks or stuns and all that, in this save I don't have a single trinket that alters speed yet, meaning I just have to rely on their default speed stats.

I definitely have been noticing that I also haven't necessarily been composing my groups as best as I can. I'll be going through the dungeon and I'll notice "I should have brought this character instead of that one here" so I'll be more careful with that.

[Baywatch]

Originally posted by Optional Guy:

My first save I got a good amount of speed altering trinkets that allowed me to really plan out who is gonna go first in my groups to apply debuffs, marks or stuns and all that, in this save I don't have a single trinket that alters speed yet, meaning I just have to rely on their default speed stats.

That may be part of your problem. If you're consistantly taking your turn after the enemy team then you're going to take a lot of damage, there isn't any real way around that. There are a few really good speed quirks that you can rely on. One that gives you 4 speed(?) on the first round of combat which is great although, that's even harder to come by than the trinkets.

For now I would just try sticking some characters with naturally high speed in your party. If all else fails you can just take a Vestal with healing trinkets. You're still going to get hurt a lot but, you should be able to keep people alive.

[Overeagerdragon]

Oh hell; the RNG might just have hated on you; I just lost a level 5 fully top geared party in the matter of 2 turns; Bandit group with 2 shooters. First ranged shoots, crits entire party, second shoot, crits entire party again; killing 2, next round the last 2 die due to bleed from the shanker; yup; guess I'll start building a lvl 5 party over again -_-

[Optional Guy]

Originally posted by overeagerdragon:

Oh hell; the RNG might just have hated on you; I just lost a level 5 fully top geared party in the matter of 2 turns; Bandit group with 2 shooters. First ranged shoots, crits entire party, second shoot, crits entire party again; killing 2, next round the last 2 die due to bleed from the shanker; yup; guess I'll start building a lvl 5 party over again -_-

I mean maybe but it happened in 2 missions and each battle resulted with me getting crit at least 4 times every time, so I thought I was maybe doing something wrong.

[monsoontide]

Thr crits are just rediculous on the enemy attacks lvl 5 and up even in 100% torchlight right now... I would understand if I was doing a torchless dark run, but its just crazy now.
That said, I did just manage to take down the Necromancer Lord (With a level 6 crew) - but that battle has been changed up significantly - Just to make sure I went back and watched a couple of "Let's Play" videos and Bone Captains didn't seem to spawn in the boss battle, so yes, RedHook have made it harder!

[Baywatch]

Originally posted by overeagerdragon:

Oh hell; the RNG might just have hated on you; I just lost a level 5 fully top geared party in the matter of 2 turns; Bandit group with 2 shooters. First ranged shoots, crits entire party, second shoot, crits entire party again; killing 2, next round the last 2 die due to bleed from the shanker; yup; guess I'll start building a lvl 5 party over again -_-

If you had a party wipe to a group of bandits RNG had nothing to do with it. In the most extreme scenario two fusiliers are hitting for like 18 damage combined per party member. If 9 damage was enough to get two of your characters onto death's door then that's on you. Also, your party is either rubbish or you're doing something wrong. The alternative being that you missed enough attacks for three of them to get their attacks off on one turn or you got really screwed in the initiative roll and then had them crit every single character in your party in which case you probably should stay indoors.

Don't take it as an insult, just be aware that in one way or another you could have prevented it from happening so you don't need to level another squad to 5 because you made the same mistakes.

[[SIN7] jacojarek56]

Originally posted by monsoontide:

Thr crits are just rediculous on the enemy attacks lvl 5 and up even in 100% torchlight right now... I would understand if I was doing a torchless dark run, but its just crazy now.
That said, I did just manage to take down the Necromancer Lord (With a level 6 crew) - but that battle has been changed up significantly - Just to make sure I went back and watched a couple of "Let's Play" videos and Bone Captains didn't seem to spawn in the boss battle, so yes, RedHook have made it harder!

My feelings EXACTLY with the Brigand 16 Pounder. Before, it's manageable. But i literally can't kill the thing fast enough to prevent THREE level 6 fully kitted out teams from being wiped. Yes, gentlemen, I kid you not. Had full gear, knocked out the Lighter every turn, but the fusilier and Cutthroat just decimated me since I simply couldn't dodge enough. Did I do something wrong when the damn LEVEL FIVE HAG was easier?!

I've lost 6 of my best people to the damn thing, and I just can't heal my people fast enough to handle the constant wearing down I get from just TWO bandits...and often times I have to focus two of my characters who should otherwise be killing the cannon on killing the lighter. I manage to get close, but then the cutthroat and fusilier just mass crit my team dead. I even just brought along a fully geared and leveled resolve 6 team of Crusader, Man at arms, Grave Robber, and Arbalest for the fight. Got the cannon down to 36 points and then the cutthroat and fusilier just mass critted my front liners dead. It's actually a horribly unfair fight, in that the cannon summons the guys ready to fight THAT ROUND. You CANNOT afford to ignore the lighter either. :(

Any ideas lads? This is literally turning me off this game.

Yes, they all have fully upgraded skills, spamming bolster for its speed and dodge, full gear, locked in quirks. I'm getting extremely upset with this. The level 3 Hag didn't kill so many of my people, but for one full party wipe. I've tried this one on LITERALLY full health and zero stress this very same battle and got my ass ruined.

What's te deal, guys and gals?

[Baywatch]

It's a bit hard to say what the problem is with the information given. But, don't bother with Bolster. That's a 1/4 of your team that isn't doing damage in a fight that requires a lot of it. Really, don't rely on dodge. It's a nice stat to have but you shouldn't be actively trying ot increase it, all you're doing is accepting taking a gamble on whether or not you're going to get hit.

The pounder fight is unique in that you are encouraged to take it as slow and safe as possible. There is no rush to get the gun down. Just make sure the matchman dies every turn and you can safely ignore it until you feel certain that you won't take a crap ton of damage.

The Crusader and MaA are meh against the Pounder. You're ideally preventing damage in this fight throough your own damage or stuns and you want as many characters that can target every position as possible. Hellions, Highwaymen, and Arbalests with their camp buffs work great.

[[SIN7] jacojarek56]

Originally posted by Baywatch:

It's a bit hard to say what the problem is with the information given. But, don't bother with Bolster. That's a 1/4 of your team that isn't doing damage in a fight that requires a lot of it. Really, don't rely on dodge. It's a nice stat to have but you shouldn't be actively trying ot increase it, all you're doing is accepting taking a gamble on whether or not you're going to get hit.

The pounder fight is unique in that you are encouraged to take it as slow and safe as possible. There is no rush to get the gun down. Just make sure the matchman dies every turn and you can safely ignore it until you feel certain that you won't take a crap ton of damage.

The Crusader and MaA are meh against the Pounder. You're ideally preventing damage in this fight throough your own damage or stuns and you want as many characters that can target every position as possible. Hellions, Highwaymen, and Arbalests with their camp buffs work great.

First, thanks for responding! :D I appreciate the advice and genuine good will! I admit to seriously banking on bolster for much of the game. It's a major corner stone of my strategy, ehehehe.

I've lost a VERY good hellion to this thing, and she was doing AMAZING on lighterman duty. One hit killing with "if it bleeds" like a champ. One of my favorites. Arbalest did really well too, and the Vestal wasn't bad even if she didn't do enough damage. Still, nice she healed herself with judgement.

Slow and safe is my primary operating style. ;) Highwayman did really well, and was my legitimate favorite...but the cannon ate him. Arbalest and Grave robber were solid choices, but again Hellion is my favorite for lighterman duty. Any other suggestions you have? Camp buffs of those classes worked quite nicely. I'd bring the leper, but honestly I just can't afford his constant missing, which I'd need a Man at arms to help with anyway. :( Or a vestal's camp buff.

So focus on stunning and killing the bandits and working your way down the 16 pounder's health slowly...got it.

Do you have any other suggestions?