Darkest Dungeon®

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Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 1:50pm
Antiquarian possibly breaking the game(?)
So I was watching one of BaerTaffy's videos, and I saw that an Antiquarian can create trinkets at camp.

What would stop a player from getting 4 Antiquarians, dropping them in med dungeons, camping, using the ability, leaving, and repeating?
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Showing 1-15 of 40 comments
DuckieMcduck Mar 13, 2016 @ 1:51pm 
About that, if you camp too early she straight up calls you a greedy bastard and you lose camp time. lol
Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 1:52pm 
Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:
About that, if you camp too early she straight up calls you a greedy bastard and you lose camp time. lol
All the camp time? Do you still get the trinket? How early?

Min maxers have no ethics you know :D
DuckieMcduck Mar 13, 2016 @ 1:57pm 
Originally posted by Tacobandit:
Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:
About that, if you camp too early she straight up calls you a greedy bastard and you lose camp time. lol
All the camp time? Do you still get the trinket? How early?

Min maxers have no ethics you know :D
The time it takes to use the camp skill, and no you don't get the trinket. I'm not sure how early, probably a few rooms in.

Not like it matters much, anyway. "Exploiting" it wouldn't mean anything, you still spend a week, and in NG+ where min/maxing is where it matters, you have a time limit to work with.
Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 1:58pm 
Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:
Originally posted by Tacobandit:
All the camp time? Do you still get the trinket? How early?

Min maxers have no ethics you know :D
The time it takes to use the camp skill, and no you don't get the trinket. I'm not sure how early, probably a few rooms in.

Not like it matters much, anyway. "Exploiting" it wouldn't mean anything, you still spend a week, and in NG+ where min/maxing is where it matters, you have a time limit to work with.
I'm just talking in general, not NG+.
DuckieMcduck Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:05pm 
Originally posted by Tacobandit:
Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:
The time it takes to use the camp skill, and no you don't get the trinket. I'm not sure how early, probably a few rooms in.

Not like it matters much, anyway. "Exploiting" it wouldn't mean anything, you still spend a week, and in NG+ where min/maxing is where it matters, you have a time limit to work with.
I'm just talking in general, not NG+.
I'm saying you don't really get any advantages by doing that in order for it to be considered an exploit.

You still have to go through some rooms and possibly face an Ambush for it, if you're doing it for money might as well run through a dungeon normally. It eats up an in-game week so it's actually detrimental for a mode where "min maxing" would matter because it's definitely not min-maxing anything aside from real life time.
Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:08pm 
Originally posted by UnluckyDuckie:
Originally posted by Tacobandit:
I'm just talking in general, not NG+.
I'm saying you don't really get any advantages by doing that in order for it to be considered an exploit.

You still have to go through some rooms and possibly face an Ambush for it, if you're doing it for money might as well run through a dungeon normally. It eats up an in-game week so it's actually detrimental for a mode where "min maxing" would matter because it's definitely not min-maxing anything aside from real life time.
Have you heard about suicide runs in DD? Where you just throw away characters after a black run?
Metal_Slug Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:12pm 
I don't think it would be viable. Firstly you can't camp in the initial room, so the party has to travel to another room and have it cleared to camp. Hopefully u don't run into any hard mobs or a room battle. Camp, eat, then the skill phase.

Trinket Scrounge costs 2 Units of time allowing all 4 antiquarians to produce a random trinket within 12 units of time. I haven't used this ability too much but it would probably drop greens (1500gp) or at best blues(2250gp). I highly doubt it would drop reliably orange trinkets which are worth 3750 gp.

Let's say we drop 4 blues (9000gp) [or 6000gp for greens] and we abort the mission. The game will still roll for quirks and diseases, plus the stress incured from aborting the mission. No rewards are paid out for aborted missions. Also there's a chance that one of the negative quirks on the antiquarians gets locked in which costs $$$ to treat.

So now we return back to the hamlet with 4 antiquarians, 6000gp, +stress, and chances for negative quirks and diseases. Let's assume we get one negative trait and one disease, as it is common occurance. We now have to pay off the treatmen the Sanitarium for the disease and possibily horrible quirk (forced curio interactions). And now we have to treat the stress levels for the remaining 2 antiquarians and then the following week those 2 antiquarians we sent to the Sanitarium. After the initial dive into the dugeon with the 4 antiquarians it would take an additional 2 weeks to cure and de-stress the 4 antiquarians.

This would not be a reliable strat and the player would rather take 1 antiquarian to yield more profit in one run with a functional party that makes mission progress. Not only that, a party with 1 antiquarian has a chance to earn those cheap and expensive tokkens that only the antiquarian can see, plus expanding gold stacks to 2000gp.

Also this method is incredabily boring; considering this is a better than average senario. What if you get a bunch of greens (1500) and greys (~1000gp?).
Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:17pm 
Originally posted by Metal_Slug:
I don't think it would be viable. Firstly you can't camp in the initial room, so the party has to travel to another room and have it cleared to camp. Hopefully u don't run into any hard mobs or a room battle. Camp, eat, then the skill phase.

Trinket Scrounge costs 2 Units of time allowing all 4 antiquarians to produce a random trinket within 12 units of time. I haven't used this ability too much but it would probably drop greens (1500gp) or at best blues(2250gp). I highly doubt it would drop reliably orange trinkets which are worth 3750 gp.

Let's say we drop 4 blues (9000gp) [or 6000gp for greens] and we abort the mission. The game will still roll for quirks and diseases, plus the stress incured from aborting the mission. No rewards are paid out for aborted missions. Also there's a chance that one of the negative quirks on the antiquarians gets locked in which costs $$$ to treat.

So now we return back to the hamlet with 4 antiquarians, 6000gp, +stress, and chances for negative quirks and diseases. Let's assume we get one negative trait and one disease, as it is common occurance. We now have to pay off the treatmen the Sanitarium for the disease and possibily horrible quirk (forced curio interactions). And now we have to treat the stress levels for the remaining 2 antiquarians and then the following week those 2 antiquarians we sent to the Sanitarium. After the initial dive into the dugeon with the 4 antiquarians it would take an additional 2 weeks to cure and de-stress the 4 antiquarians.

This would not be a reliable strat and the player would rather take 1 antiquarian to yield more profit in one run with a functional party that makes mission progress. Not only that, a party with 1 antiquarian has a chance to earn those cheap and expensive tokkens that only the antiquarian can see, plus expanding gold stacks to 2000gp.

Also this method is incredabily boring; considering this is a better than average senario. What if you get a bunch of greens (1500) and greys (~1000gp?).
All of that assumes you keep/treat the antiquarians.

From the eyes of someone who regularly does "suicide runs" (eg send in 4 level 0s pitch black, grab as much loot as possible, abort mission, dismisses entire party), they would obviously have no qualms about dismissing antiquarians.

And one could simply send them back in again (although there would be diminishing returns due to some dying from stress).

Now I'm not saying that I would do that, but it seems like the potential to trinket farm is there. Plus Antiquarians find those money making artifacts in like every curio.
Last edited by Milk; Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:18pm
Xlomblie_Wheizard Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:26pm 
Okay, try this:
-3 Antiquarians, 1 HM w/ Therapy Dog & his prevent nighttime ambush skill
-Only go for long dungeons, have a scouting item on every party member
-if first room not scouted or if there's no way to move to another room w/out a fight, abandon quest
-Otherwise, move to next room. Camp twice in a row, use Hound's Watch, Therapy Dog, 3x Trinket Scrounge, for both camps.
Then you cancel out the stress from abandoning the previous quest.
Metal_Slug Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:27pm 
@tacobandit

You make a good point about dismissing antiquarians and sucide runs, I totally forgot about that POV. But then all 4 antiquarians would have to be leveled and have the camping skill.

This all just seems so unneccesary. Players will also find ways to cheese, making its incredibility boring and stepwise is the price they pay for sold trinkets i guess.

To each his own I guess; but what's the point of making the numbers go up if you don't have fun doing it?
Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:27pm 
Originally posted by Xlomblie_Wheizard:
Okay, try this:
-3 Antiquarians, 1 HM w/ Therapy Dog & his prevent nighttime ambush skill
-Only go for long dungeons, have a scouting item on every party member
-if first room not scouted or if there's no way to move to another room w/out a fight, abandon quest
-Otherwise, move to next room. Camp twice in a row, use Hound's Watch, Therapy Dog, 3x Trinket Scrounge, for both camps.
Then you cancel out the stress from abandoning the previous quest.
IIRC they patched out camping twice in a row.
Xlomblie_Wheizard Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:28pm 
Originally posted by Tacobandit:
Originally posted by Xlomblie_Wheizard:
Okay, try this:
-3 Antiquarians, 1 HM w/ Therapy Dog & his prevent nighttime ambush skill
-Only go for long dungeons, have a scouting item on every party member
-if first room not scouted or if there's no way to move to another room w/out a fight, abandon quest
-Otherwise, move to next room. Camp twice in a row, use Hound's Watch, Therapy Dog, 3x Trinket Scrounge, for both camps.
Then you cancel out the stress from abandoning the previous quest.
IIRC they patched out camping twice in a row.
Really?! When??? I literally did it yesterday... :(
Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:30pm 
Originally posted by Metal_Slug:
@tacobandit

You make a good point about dismissing antiquarians and sucide runs, I totally forgot about that POV. But then all 4 antiquarians would have to be leveled and have the camping skill.

This all just seems so unneccesary. Players will also find ways to cheese, making its incredibility boring and stepwise is the price they pay for sold trinkets i guess.

To each his own I guess; but what's the point of making the numbers go up if you don't have fun doing it?
I'm just saying that maybe the trinket skill should be toned down a bit. Perhaps instead of giving the player an actual trinket, it gives a squadmate a random trinket effect for that mission?

Otherwise she literally prints so much money. Like I realize that the above scenario is a bit ridiculous, but even from a "straight" playstyle, she seems very OP economically.
Milk Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:34pm 
Originally posted by Xlomblie_Wheizard:
Originally posted by Tacobandit:
IIRC they patched out camping twice in a row.
Really?! When??? I literally did it yesterday... :(
http://steamcommunity.com/app/262060/discussions/0/412448792372657731/

"Removed ability to use Firewood while in the middle of camping, thus starting a new camp. You can no longer camp, while you camp, even though you all like to camp."
Last edited by Milk; Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:35pm
phantasmal Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:41pm 
They patched out being able to camp while already camping. Aka the ability to activate campfire while camping. You can still camp twice in a row.

Originally posted by Metal_Slug:
Trinket Scrounge costs 2 Units of time allowing all 4 antiquarians to produce a random trinket within 12 units of time. I haven't used this ability too much but it would probably drop greens (1500gp) or at best blues(2250gp). I highly doubt it would drop reliably orange trinkets which are worth 3750 gp.
The actual odds are 40% Very Common, 28% Common, 20% Uncommon, 8% Rare, 4% Very Rare. With the above mentioned 3 Antiquarian + 1 HM technique you have 11.5% chance to get at least one Very Rare, 9 runs to definetly get one. With 4 Antiquarian the odds are 15%, 7 runs needed.
Expected average monetary gain of a run is 4500 gold.
Sounds incredibly boring and super time consuming. Most of the time you just get Blight Charms and the kind.
These odds are also only slightly better than the base odds of apprentice dungeons and much worse than Veteran and Champion trinket odds.

Also, imo suicides runs should have been patched out long ago, by giving heroes a base recruitment class.
Last edited by phantasmal; Mar 13, 2016 @ 2:41pm
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Date Posted: Mar 13, 2016 @ 1:50pm
Posts: 40