Thoughts on Debuff Removal Skills

[Nemo, Forevermore]

In my experience with characters such as the Hellion, Leper and Abomination, I am surprised that there are no skills for any characters that could also remove debuffs. Sure you can use Medicinal Herbs to remove them, but the gold cost and inventory space needed to do this makes it a poor option.

I would propose that Red Hook add Debuff Removal to a few lackluster skills.

Hellion/Adrenaline Rush - Having a Hellion who can focus on loadouts that include Bleed Out, Breakthrough and Barbaric Yawp!, and the ability to use a turn to remove the debuff themselves would add more depth to Hellion builds.

Crusader/Inspiring Cry - Removing +Torch and adding Debuff Removal to this skill could change the way higher difficulty battles play out. As it stands, Inspiring Cry seems dull compared to other classes' stress reduction skills.

Plague Doctor/Battlefield Medicine - While I enjoy Battlefield Medicine quite a bit to restore Blighted and Bleeding heroes, adding a Debuff Removal to this skill would make it shine in those deepest, darkest places.

Jester/Inspiring Tune - as with Crusader's Inspiring Cry, adding Debuff Removal to this skill would add some depth to this skill. Sure, it's a good skill for stress management, but it tends to be a completely useless skill otherwise.

There are also camping skills that could be reworked to include a Debuff Removal. Right now, it seems there is only one way to deal with Debuffs and it is annoyingly obstructive to dungeon diving. One of the things this game does well is giving options on how to deal with problems that arise. Sadly, with the massive prevalence of debuffing already occuring in Veteran and Champion dungeons, debuff removal is in a poor state.

These are based on my own opinions and experiences of Darkest Dungeon gameplay.

TL;DR - Let's add more ways to remove debuffs in dungeons outside of just stocking up on medicinal herbs. This could easily be accomplished with battle skills and camping skills without minimalizing the game experience.

[Nemo, Forevermore]

Also, on a side note, I would like to see Bleed Removal added to Arbalest's Battlefield Bandage. It just makes sense. Maybe add Blight Removal to another healing skill as well.

[Lujo]

On a pure "it would make sense" level which I rarely ever ponder, I keep wondering why "pick to the face" doesn't chip away some ridiculously small ammount of enemy prot as a debuff. That's what picks were used for as weapons in medieval times, breaking through armor. Not that the Graverobber needs it but if it's insignificant enough (-5% prot per stack too much? Not scaling per level?) it'd be pretty cool, especially since it's her only front row hitting skill.

[Nemo, Forevermore]

Originally posted by Lujo:

On a pure "it would make sense" level which I rarely ever ponder, I keep wondering why "pick to the face" doesn't chip away some ridiculously small ammount of enemy prot as a debuff. That's what picks were used for as weapons in medieval times, breaking through armor. Not that the Graverobber needs it but if it's insignificant enough (-5% prot per stack too much?) it'd be pretty cool, especially since it's her only front row hitting skill.

A very good thought. There should be more ways to break through Prot instead of relying solely on DoTs and BH marks. Besides, I would like to see more depth to a lot of skills. Reworking a lot of skills so they have multiple uses would be a great addition to party-building.

[LaserGuy]

I think Inspiring Tune and Battlefield Medicine are already quite useful without also adding debuff clearing. As I alluded to in the other thread about this, I'd rather give this ability to Battle Heal (Crusader), Cry Havoc (HM), and Emboldening Vapors (PD). Maybe Battlefield Bandage (Arb) could take it too, I guess, and one or two of the self heals.

Camping always clears debuffs, doesn't it? Except ones that you add on camp, and the odd one that is whole dungeon?

[Nemo, Forevermore]

Originally posted by aaron.m.barlow:

I think Inspiring Tune and Battlefield Medicine are already quite useful without also adding debuff clearing. As I alluded to in the other thread about this, I'd rather give this ability to Battle Heal (Crusader), Cry Havoc (HM), and Emboldening Vapors (PD). Maybe Battlefield Bandage (Arb) could take it too, I guess, and one or two of the self heals.

Camping always clears debuffs, doesn't it? Except ones that you add on camp, and the odd one that is whole dungeon?

As far as I know, camping will remove debuffs, but the ones you get for using some camping buffs like Battle Trance need to be removed with herbs. I guess debuff removal would be next to useless in camp skills and could be +debuff resist instead.

I do like the ideas for Battle Heal, Cry Havoc and Emboldening Vapors for debuff removal, but I am not sure about Battlefield Bandage. I would rather have that skill remove bleeds. After all, it is a bandage and bandages remove bleeds.

I do stand behind my idea for Adrenaline Rush removing debuffs for a Hellion. It would be neat to be able to do a Breakthrough or Bleed Out, follow it with a Barbaric YELP, and then pop an Adrenaline Rush to get her from negative DMG and DODGE to positive DMG and ACC. I would actually use all of her skills if I could pull that off.

[LaserGuy]

Originally posted by mad_myke:

I do stand behind my idea for Adrenaline Rush removing debuffs for a Hellion. It would be neat to be able to do a Breakthrough or Bleed Out, follow it with a Barbaric YELP, and then pop an Adrenaline Rush to get her from negative DMG and DODGE to positive DMG and ACC. I would actually use all of her skills if I could pull that off.

I think putting it on Adrenaline Rush is a good idea, yes. Self-heals and self-buffs are generally kind of marginal utility activities for most characters anyway.

[aardvarkpepper]

Originally posted by aaron.m.barlow:

Originally posted by mad_myke:

I do stand behind my idea for Adrenaline Rush removing debuffs for a Hellion. It would be neat to be able to do a Breakthrough or Bleed Out, follow it with a Barbaric YELP, and then pop an Adrenaline Rush to get her from negative DMG and DODGE to positive DMG and ACC. I would actually use all of her skills if I could pull that off.

I think putting it on Adrenaline Rush is a good idea, yes. Self-heals and self-buffs are generally kind of marginal utility activities for most characters anyway.

1. self-heal not "kind of marginal" if you're running a party without dedicated healer

2. self-buff is completely different to what's being suggested. buff while enemies hit you and you do nothing, then getting bigger attack later (often not twice as powerful attack either which is what you would do if you just attacked twice) does not compensate for initial turn usage on buff. Here it's using hellion's front loaded damage initially and dealing high damage then using free recovery later that doesn't even cost gold.

look yeah hellion is not garbage to begin with, you put on trinkets that buff then use those debuff self attacks multiple times then remove debuffs together with medicinal herb, it's not whatever the greatest, but if you take cost of medicinal herb and medicinal herb availability out of the equation, then a lot more stuff becomes possible, like double revel camp abuse &c &c &c &c.

I mean yeah I don't need to poop on someone's idea if I disagree with implementation and particulars, but let's not compare self heal and self buff to what's being suggested

now let's hug

[Nemo, Forevermore]

Originally posted by aardvarkpepper:

Originally posted by aaron.m.barlow:

I think putting it on Adrenaline Rush is a good idea, yes. Self-heals and self-buffs are generally kind of marginal utility activities for most characters anyway.

1. self-heal not "kind of marginal" if you're running a party without dedicated healer

2. self-buff is completely different to what's being suggested. buff while enemies hit you and you do nothing, then getting bigger attack later (often not twice as powerful attack either which is what you would do if you just attacked twice) does not compensate for initial turn usage on buff. Here it's using hellion's front loaded damage initially and dealing high damage then using free recovery later that doesn't even cost gold.

look yeah hellion is not garbage to begin with, you put on trinkets that buff then use those debuff self attacks multiple times then remove debuffs together with medicinal herb, it's not whatever the greatest, but if you take cost of medicinal herb and medicinal herb availability out of the equation, then a lot more stuff becomes possible, like double revel camp abuse &c &c &c &c.

I mean yeah I don't need to poop on someone's idea if I disagree with implementation and particulars, but let's not compare self heal and self buff to what's being suggested

now let's hug

at least adrenaline rush uses a turn. popping medicinal herbs is a free action.

[aardvarkpepper]

Originally posted by mad_myke:

at least adrenaline rush uses a turn. popping medicinal herbs is a free action.

Like I wrote, it's a recovery turn after front-loaded damage, not a preparatory turn before back-loaded damage.

plus its other utilities, which are pretty big.