Fighters refusing to fight

[Jin Mack]

So after painful trial and error, ive come to the conclusion that any fighter lvl 3 or higher can no longer venture into a lvl 1 dungeon, not even to 'Guide' or 'Protect' a group of friends. This is a really annoying feature, and completely unrealistic, i could think of a million ways to increase difficulty that aren't this frustrating.

Really nothing worse than having 3 fighters at lvl 3, then another 3 fighters at lvl 2, and they all refuse to fight with eachother, not one combo works, how is this realistic?

I could tolerate this strange mechanic if it make at least SOME kind of logical sense, but it doesnt, these are mercenaries, being paid to fight, they dont care what lvl dungeon it is FFS. Why are they so picky? they meant to be badass killers, thats how i viewed them all. Now i look at them like a bunch of old people in a retirement home, who refuse to fight, cuz they too 'experienced'. Sipping tea and watching the news.

[No One]

They don't refuse to fight together, just put the level 2 into a level 3 mission. It's not ideal but it's hardly catastrophic.

[Justice]

On radiant difficulty you can take heroes up to lvl 4 to apprentice level dungeon, You could start a new game on that difficulty

[Aidal]

Originally posted by Jin Maq:

So after painful trial and error, ive come to the conclusion that any fighter lvl 3 or higher can no longer venture into a lvl 1 dungeon, not even to 'Guide' or 'Protect' a group of friends. This is a really annoying feature, and completely unrealistic, i could think of a million ways to increase difficulty that aren't this frustrating.

Really nothing worse than having 3 fighters at lvl 3, then another 3 fighters at lvl 2, and they all refuse to fight with eachother, not one combo works, how is this realistic?

Like really devs your so scared people are going to farm lvl dungeons you had to create a literally C**k-blocker on my entire game? You couldnt think up any other way to solve the issue? Just make the fighters say no, simple as that? LAME, i find your lack of creativity disturbing.

So my fun dungeon hack n slash game has now morphed into a village micromanagement sim, where i have to manage who likes who, like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dating simulator, not even joking this is just a dealbreaker, my brain hurts right now just thinking about the fact i have to micro my squad before the next battle, its a pain in the ass.

I could tolerate this strange mechanic if it make at least SOME kind of logical sense, but it doesnt, these are mercenaries, being paid to fight, they dont care what lvl dungeon it is FFS. Why are they so picky? they meant to be badass killers, thats how i viewed them all. Now i look at them like a bunch of old people in a retirement home, who refuse to fight, cuz they too 'experienced'. Sipping tea and watching the news.

The meat and potatos challenge of this game is using mechanics to mitigate risk, it is not a JRPG where you can over level to just one shot things, its something entirely different and this reaction is so far over the top I'm convinced you're trolling for a rise. Heroes are literally free to recruit because they're meant to be drawn and discarded, thrown away when they're not useful anymore.

Like the second post states, take the under leveled characters into a stronger dungeon, they will level up and your problem becomes non-issue. If you wipe or win, which ever happens stage coach has more heroes.

If you wanted to play Tamagachi and raise a soldier or squad into a badass killing machine, X-com is that way.

[Jin Mack]

Guys i appreciate the wisdom, but i do know what my options are, and how to work around it. But the point is this is a dumb feature that i shouldnt have to work around, but all good! i found a mod that disabled it completely, on the very first page of the workshop under 'most subscribed' with cute little comments like this one....

'This mod transformed this game from unplayable garbage to somewhat playable.
Given the gigantic # of subscribers, why don't the devs wake up and use this mod to fix the base game?'

Clearly this is an issue that people hate, not just me, i agree with this poster, devs should just scrap this dumb mechanic so people like me dont have to mod the game to make it playable. I dont mind strange mechanics in games, as long as they make logical sense.

[Aidal]

Originally posted by Jin Maq:

Clearly this is an issue that people hate, not just me, i agree with this poster, devs should just scrap this dumb mechanic so people like me dont have to mod the game to make it playable. I dont mind strange mechanics in games, as long as they make logical sense.

Look I wanna clarify something super quick, I get that this game and its mechanics might not be for you, but thats the thing. You don't have to adjust too it if you don't want too. But for the love of all that is respectful in the industry, please do not tell people how to produce their product, you sound like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ boomer with that post.

The game works as the devs intended it too, they balanced the challenge out as they wanted. Yes the mod option to avoid it is there, radiant difficulty even provides leeway by adding another level before ego becomes a problem, but that statement is so disrespectful toward not just DD, but literally every Dev in the industry.

I'm not saying you're wrong, opinions are opinions, but I'm not going to tell you how to manage your life, hobby, or career, do not do the same to others like that. To clarify.

It is okay to dislike something, that is fine and good, keep doing that.

Please do not be a jerk to people trying to create things because you don't like how its being created.

[RopeDrink]

"Logical sense" is not something you should seek from a Lovecraftian risk-reducer from space-hell. In fact, it is often wise not to seek it in any game, even some that are actively trying to be logical and/or realistic.

Just like Hunger Tiles, they make no logical or realistic sense, but from a balance perspective, they have a very obvious purpose. In this particular case, it isn't far removed from how many games handle higher-level characters in lower-level areas. It'd be like heading into WoW and flaming the developers because your level 60 character doesn't gain XP or loot when farming the Barrens.

Having said that, what you are referencing is just one of many things you would be expected to manage in future runs (if you didn't utilize mods), and most seasoned veterans have their own way of dealing with it.

Personally, I almost always keep slots free -- typically via Antiquarians -- so that I always have space for an apprentice-only squad, at least until the roster is on the verge of hitting Champion, and even if it comes at the expense of the occasional retired hero.

I almost always have the entire roster leveled at a relatively even keel with a few slots to spare just in-case.

[Jin Mack]

Guys your posts have many letters and make valid points, but your voices do not drown out the literal THOUSANDS of subscribers who rated that mod 5 stars and who clearly disagree with you. Im sorry but nothing you say can avoid the fact you are wrong, and sometimes devs need to just face the fact they made a bad decision, and fix it.

This feature sucks, the world agrees, the tribe has spoken, democracy wins.
Disagree all you want but facts are facts.

[RopeDrink]

the world agrees

Nice to know that "literal thousands" of subscribers to a particular mod speak for the tens of thousands who own the game and never complained in the first place.

Disagree all you want but facts are facts.

Welcome to a public discussion board -- a place where some people just want to make a substance-less rant and not actually "discuss" anything.

Enjoy your mod, and I'm sure many people will quietly enjoy their lack of it.

[Aidal]

Originally posted by Jin Maq:

Guys your posts have many letters and make valid points, but your voices do not drown out the literal THOUSANDS of subscribers who rated that mod 5 stars and who clearly disagree with you. Im sorry but nothing you say can avoid the fact you are wrong, and sometimes devs need to just face the fact they made a bad decision, and fix it.

This feature sucks, the world agrees, the tribe has spoken, democracy wins.
Disagree all you want but facts are facts.

Aight cool lets go with numbers then.

Darkest Dungeon has sold over 2 million copies that I can track, of that assumed 2,000,000
276,837 of them have used the level removal mod. A whopping, lets be generous and say 15%. You know what I'll go even lower for you, we will stick to the initial 650,000 copies that only sold within the first week, and we'll pit that against 276,837

My brother in Christ.

[Kamltoe]

The level restriction adds insane grind to the game. Many hundreds of thousands have removed this trashcan feature and have added more difficulty with other mods and the extremely hard vermintide/sunward isle expansion dungeons. The game gets alot more fun without the level restriction.

But hey a million people who bought the game and later quit in 2015-2017 matter more aMiRItE gUYz

[Jin Mack]

Im still yet to hear one basic example of how this situation would happen in real life.

Lets take a scenario, youve hired a guy, hes been fighting hard for you for a month now, and you approach him and tell him the next mission, which is a lvl 1 Ruin.

What are his possible responses that actually make sense?
His logical reason for not joining the party that hired him ....... *insert here*

This is like the lord of the rings fellowship approaching Mines of Moria, then Gandalf saying "Oh sorry little hobbits i cant go in here, im lvl 8 and this is only a lvl 5 area, im far too experienced and 'need a challenge' to improve my skills otherwise whats the point?"

You know the main issue here, is the main objective of the adventurers seems to be to get experience. Not gold, not glory, but experience. Thats their motivations. WTF, that does not make any sense

the QUEST should be the main motivations, or at least greed. Just something logical.

[Aidal]

Originally posted by Jin Maq:

Im still yet to hear one basic example of how this situation would happen in real life.

It wouldn't, its a game. There is no situation in real life where an eldrich heart would be locking you in a potental time loop while you endlessly sacrifice adventurers to it so that it may grow in power.

Do you apply real life to every game you play?

[No One]

P.S. They're not being paid to fight. They don't draw a salary or even a cut of the loot. I think of them as mercs too but it's not actually accurate.
That's why you have to pay for their drinks. They're too poor to buy their own round. It's so bad they can't even attend church without your permission.

--

I think, after all these years, we have found the proper translation of "grind."

In most games, grind is doing something boring, predictable, and completely reliable, over and over, to make something else possible or easy. Farming Baal or Andreal for loot or whatever.

In DD, apparently removing level restrictions - allowing you to predictable, tediously, and completely reliably stomp low-level dungeons - is the opposite of grind.

In DD, apparently being "unplayable grindy" is, in plain English, having no grind. I see now. Mystery solved. DD2 is bad because there is literally no possibility for grinding at all. In DD1 you could theoretically accelerate your own levelling, which means, even with level restrictions, there's a slow option. In DD2 the only way to take it slower is to shut the game down; you go forward or not at all.

I'm not going to stand here and say level restrictions are the peak of game design or anything, as anyone who is familiar with my posting history can attest. But seriously, get a grip.

[Aidal]

Originally posted by Jin Maq:

the QUEST should be the main motivations, or at least greed. Just something logical.

Dodging the real life doesn't apply humor, though, in all honesty the glory is what a lot of them are after, and theres no glory in beating up a weak foe.

[RopeDrink]

Originally posted by Kamltoe:

Yeah im the mad one here. Clearly.

Acceptance is the first step to recovery.

Originally posted by Jin Maq:

Im still yet to hear one basic example of how this situation would happen in real life.

That's the problem. This isn't real life, and this exact type of mechanic is prevalent across numerous games and genres.

You can eat a huge feast and walk right into a hunger tile in the next corridor which forces you to eat more. That's not realistic unless you want to argue for very specific illnesses or inhuman appetites. It's purely to mitigate food as a healing crutch and an additional factor to manage.

Heroes can heal during battles but can't when idle in corridors? Again, similar balance deal, even if other games take different approaches, such as old Baldur's Gate RPG's where everyone can magically sleep on demand for years on end so long as they're not being accosted, or how every guard within a twenty mile radius can be mass-alerted to your petty crime in old Skyrim.

If the issue is in the suspension of disbelief, do keep in mind that the game you're playing involves tentacled beasts from outer-space, mutant flesh-hogs from sewer hell, fishy humanoids that enjoy a bit of good ole' human sacrifice, spooky scary skellingtons, and all manner of off-kilter jank.

The fact that a bunch of mercs don't feel keen on wasting their talents on excursions beneath their pay-grade (to stop you babysitting lowbies through what is supposedly meant to be a difficult rogue-lite) should be the least of your concerns.

Radiant Mode actually helps with your problem, yet you'd be surprised at how many people complained when it was incorporated (at the risk of their hard game being watered down).

At the end of the day, games often don't cater for everyone.

Originally posted by No One:

I'm not going to stand here and say level restrictions are the peak of game design or anything, as anyone who is familiar with my posting history can attest. But seriously, get a grip.

Basically, this.