Flag trinkets?

[krbrs]

I'm struggling with the Flag. I currently have the martyr's seal and resurrection collar. His abillities are:
Punish, reclaim, exanguinate and redeem.
Are theese good?
Help pls

[RopeDrink]

Are theese good?

Not really.

You're using a DBR trinket that only provides the benefit of +HP -- other than being on death's door, which you should be avoiding like the plague. +Healing won't improve his HoT and the other heals are percent-based -- and then get slapped with anti-healing debuffs to make +healing even more irrelevant.

Remember - just because he gains buffs on low or no health doesn't mean it's beneficial to be in that state by choice. He'll be taking a lot of damage by default and will simply gain those perks eventually even if you're trying to avoid it. Too many people make the mistake of trying to intentionally stress a FLA into Rapturuous or play around his DBR. Those people generally end up with lots of filled graves and far more problems than they're worth.

Use standard trinkets, cut one of those heals from the equation, and get him to slap things with bleeds. It is his main selling point -- being the absolute best bleeder in the game who also happens to have usable support skills.

His presence means you have a decent anti-PROT option against anything that isn't Undead. I use Punish > Rain > Redeem (or Reclaim) > Endure -- making him a bleed-bot who can support with heals and sheals if needed. If you absolutely need on-demand heals, take the HoT. If healing is mostly covered or you suspect a much bigger intake (like boss fights) then take his Redeem (double-heal) instead.

Again, he doesn't really gain much from healing-trinkets and his bleeds (main source of damage) do not gain from combat-buffs or even +DAM trinkets -- they only affect his physical damage, and there are better physical damage dealers -- but that doesn't mean +DAM is not a good choice for him. I usually rock a bit of bleed-resistance once I know his SPD/ACC is comfortable, maybe some +DAM to add more raw numbers before his bleeds.

[No One]

Is FLG a noob trap?
Or maybe it's a dev trap?

Unfortunately the correct way to play FLG is totally conventionally. Hit things until they die, heal if he gets hurt.

FLG is a crusader who super fast instead of ultra slow, is bad in the ruins instead of slightly better, and whose utility is a bit worse to compensate for the speed. For nearly whatever problem you're having with the rest of your party, you can give the FLG an ability to help.

Though, that, said reclaim is surprisingly bad at low levels, and should never be at level 3 at any time.

The devs had some interesting ideas for FLG but forgot to put those ideas into a set of game mechanics that make them, even remotely, a good idea. For example, there's no tradeoff with rapturous. It's either the right idea or the wrong idea, and it's the wrong idea. Rapturous is an okay bonus if you go crazy unavoidably, but should never be done on purpose.

Outside of boss fights I personally find redeem/exsanguinate to be largely a waste of a bar slot. However, if if you're almost taking deathblow checks on the FLG, then slap one of those on to take some of the pressure off your healer. I tend to prefer redeem since exsanguinate can miss, and that cancels the heal.

[Butt Goblin]

Deathblow Resist on Flagellants is a trap--although he does have some benefits at 0 HP in practice it's far too risky to try to utilize them. I've seen plenty of people stack DB resist and then complain about their Flagellants dying on their first attack. 13% death chance is simply too high to do anything with. In practice, the extent of his low-health gimmicks are that you can use Redeem or Exsang to get out of bad HP.

In general, you should try to prioritize the following stats:

- Bleed chance. It's basically red ACC and your Flag will be very inconsistent (i.e. bad) if you don't have any. Use Bleed Amulet for this unless you have Shard of Glass and have no interest in optimizing bleed resist; since Bleed Amulet also increases bleed resist, it won't increase the self-bleed chance of Reclaim.

- Bleed resist. It's difficult to put this to use in the early game but with a very large bleed resist trinket you can make yourself immune to Reclaim self-bleeds which makes using him as a healer much safer. This generally requires either the endgame +50% resist trinkets (Flesh's Heart being the best option) or the Clotter quirk plus Fortifying Garlic since Reclaim's self-bleed chance is extreme.

- SPD. DoT users suck if their enemies go before them as they lose a potential tick of DoT damage. Flagellant is already fast but many of the enemies you want to kill quickly are even faster.

- ACC. Flagellant has good base accuracy on Punish and Rain of Sorrows, so it's not super critical to run this on him. Exsanguinate kind of sucks without this though so it can be a consideration if you care about it. Use any trinket you want (probably Focus Ring since the dodge reduction is beneficial on Flags).

- Healing Received. Flagellant puts hefty debuffs on his self-recovery if you use Redeem or Exsang which are largely mitigated by a Recovery Charm. This usually doesn't matter but it's important if your Flag gets smacked by focus-fire, since it'll recover tons of HP and keeps follow-up self-heals relevant. Bleed Resist is stronger if you're looking for a healing trinket but Healing Received is much easier to obtain.

As for skills, I always run Punish/Rain of Sorrows/Reclaim/Redeem. Punish and RoS are to cover all your offensive bases, Reclaim is for healing others, and Redeem is for when your Flagellant gets hit. You could use Exsang instead of Redeem but because it can miss it's less consistent. Endure is also good but I can never justify it over one of the other skills unless I have a Vestal or excessive off-healing (in which case I can barely justify running a Flagellant at all).

[CloudSeeker]

The Flag should be treated just like any other hero. The idea itself is a trap. He is just a bleeder character with some heavy self sustain. I am going to compare him to the Bounty Hunter as the BH is rather mediocre unless factor in human/marked bonuses so bonuses for the BH is not applied in this.

The skills I use is the following:
- Punish: Main attack. It falls somewhat above the avg damage of a BH.
- Rain of Sorrows: Secondary attack to harm backrow as much as possible. Your top priority is always stress dealers, so attack them first. You do this for the bleed stacks, not for the damage.
- Exsanguinate: Your heal and damage dealer. This skill is awesome when you are hurt. +50% HP and a massive bleed stack, yes please. The debuff can be removed with herbs. So keep some around.
- Suffer: This is your tank ability. It is really great to prevent death in the team. Your Flag is most likely going to have the most health as he can self heal really well without losing damage, so this skill should only be used to take blight/bleed and mark away from other heros. Death resist is a lie. It gets caped at around 80% or so, so doesn't really matter.

Since his camping skill Lash's Solace is so awesome. You can use it to let him soak up stress until its time for camping.

I recommend that you use the following:
1. Ancestor's Map: Because Scouting is the number 1 thing in the game. You can't be surprised and you can easily avoid fighting everything. You don't need to fight everything. The stress gained doesn't matter. You avoid more by avoiding fights.
2. Ancestor's Lantern: With scouting the -party surprised doesn't matter. But the Monster surprised still does and sometimes scouting doesn't always work. If the monsters are surprised, you get a whole turn to pick out the biggest problem before they can retaliate. This is awesome as you gain the action economy advantage. Fight 3v4 is always better then 4v4.
3. Crescendo Box: Speed and damage. What more can any character want. The Flag got some decent to somewhat bad damage, but he still deals damage.
4. Any damage or speed trinket honestly. Just don't bother with his Crimson Court Trinkets. They are not worth anything, so don't worry about them.

[RopeDrink]

I am going to compare him to the Bounty Hunter as the BH is rather mediocre unless factor in human/marked bonuses so bonuses for the BH is not applied in this.

Why? They are so far apart in function, role and versatility that it's not even funny.

Suffer: This is your tank ability.

There is only one tank ability in the game - and the FLG doesn't have it. FLG isn't a tank in the conventional sense nor even a DD sense (outside of having good self-sustain).

Suffer is such a meme button overall.

Ancestor's Map: Because Scouting is the number 1 thing in the game.

No.1 thing in the game is SPD, closely followed by ACC, closely followed by STUN as the next best thing to outright killing. Scouting is a few notches down the list.

With scouting the -party surprised doesn't matter.

Scouting is great, but eliminating the surprise factor is only truly relevant to immobile comps, nor has anything to do with the FLA himself.

The Flag got some decent to somewhat bad damage, but he still deals damage.

He's one of the better damage dealers in the game against almost everything (excluding undead and a few specific high-res enemies). You seem to be referring simply to physical damage, which doesn't tell the full story.

Exsanguinate: Your heal and damage dealer. This skill is awesome when you are hurt. +50% HP and a massive bleed stack, yes please. The debuff can be removed with herbs. So keep some around.

Requires you to be hurt, and as No One said, can also miss - which is more likely to happen if you're using a FLA as a scout-trinket mule. It also only heals himself, whereas Redeem heals himself and a fellow party member for a large, flat, max-HP value with no added dice-rolls or risks. You're better off going for the guaranteed version that can help other people in a pinch. If you take both, you risk never pressing 50% of your kit for a hefty chunk of gameplay -- assuming you're playing appropriately that is.

-----

The crux of the problem is that everything about the design screams 'self-harm-meatsack who lives on the edge that simply gets stronger when hurt or dying - but can self-sustain when needed'.

Alas, this doesn't mechanically work very well, meaning you're better off playing him like you would any other hero for best results. Some people will still try to play him like he's any kind of tank, but that's just asking for added risk in a risk-reducing environment for an unworthy benefit.

[krbrs]

Ok, i took some advice, my flag now has the flesh heart and bleed amulet. His abillities are: punish, rain of sorrows, exanguinate, redeem. Is this a good change?
( i am going to the 3d dd mission and i'm scared)

[Butt Goblin]

Originally posted by KindaReallyBad:

Ok, i took some advice, my flag now has the flesh heart and bleed amulet. His abillities are: punish, rain of sorrows, exanguinate, redeem. Is this a good change?
( i am going to the 3d dd mission and i'm scared)

No Reclaim is dicey depending on the rest of your party and also largely eliminates the need for Flesh's Heart. DD3 has plenty of strong DoTs which makes Reclaim attractive even if you are running Vestal.

DD3 enemies have competent bleed resist all around which makes DoT users in general a little suspect; while most enemies are tolerable enough (only 7.5% resist chance, which is still a fair bit worse than normal dungeons where it's typically guaranteed to work) the White Cell Stalks are pretty well-off (27.5% resist chance plus an 18.25% dodge chance with your setup) so Flagellant is not a great option for taking them out. If you have other long-range damage dealers to take out the Stalks he is acceptable since DD3 has frontliners worth attacking which Flagellant excels against.

Even though this dungeon is a good case for Exsanguinate (plenty of frontline priorities to smack with enough HP for a strong bleed to actually matter) I would probably still take Reclaim over it. In regular dungeons I would absolutely ditch Exsang for it, even though the massive damage is attractive it's so rare to find something in the frontline where you actually care about inflicting a marginally larger bleed than Punish.

[francisfordcpp]

são bons geral pai

[No One]

The flesh's heart doesn't accomplish anything if you're not using reclaim.

Use a sun ring or surgeon's gloves.

Or use the ancestor's scroll, and swap exsanguinate for endure.