What are your favorite and most disliked classes?

[Nightbringer]

It is one of those threads again. I just wanted to share my hated for a Leper with everyone.

Least favourite classes

Leper:

That piece of crap doesn't do anything better than other classes. It doesn't have more damage, it doesn't have more survivability, it doesn't have utility. It can't hit anyone if you do not spend one turn to buff him. That is already giving up initiative in your battle and even then you do not become accurate with him, just being able to hit damn things as any other class. Its damage buff is not strong enough to be worth downside of making him susceptible to damage and crits especially. He can't hit targets outside of first two rows.

He is slow as a rock. He doesn't have any good camping skills. His abilities are underwhelming. Clearing corpses is nice and all that, but it doesn't justify himself with just that. His ability to intimidate and reveal enemies is also good, but just too inflexible. He demands to be placed in a first row and competes for that place with other frontliners. All I can see in him are downsides and handicaps and in exchange he doesn't get much in order to justify playing someone slow and blind.

Crusader:

Very gimmicky class. It has an edge against undead like Occultist can be a good damage dealer against Eldritch. However, where Occultist has a really useful kit, his kit is extremely mediocre. He has a benefit of being a solid choice and thus he does not keep on dying like my Lepers.

Outside of ruins and heck, even most encounters, his damage is nothing special without his bonuses. He doesn't have anything in his kit which would make him useful. Though, not unlike Leper, at least he doesn't need to waste turns to become useful and is better on a first and second turns when you aim to take out mobs before they get threatening.

Favourite classes:

Highwayman:

It was a close call with a Grave Robber. I like him, because he is so solid in his kit and diverse in his playstyle. Something which he has similar with Grave Robber too. I like how I can dart to a first row with decently damaging ability and get riposte bonus. Then go back to a second line with Close Shot which is terrific at melting frontline. It has one of the best self buffs in a game. A ranged shot which de-cloak and gives him most useful buffs in a game. He has AoE and can do a lot of damage with his Pistol Shot. If enemy has high protection, he can apply bleed and bleed debuff on them.

It is my most reliable and useful classes. With Ripose and being on the frontlines, it can keep on doing damage better than Hellion. It can ping remaining mob which most classes lack. Leper and Crusader do have AoE which makes them more useful, but the issue is that it isn't much more damage at the cost of utility and range of an ability. Hitting 3 with an AoE is far better than hitting 2 with AoE. Its buff is strongest in a game and it is something which Leper's buffs should look like too. Do something useful + get massive buff benefits. Overall, very solid class. My my only complaint is that it has a very generic attack ability with a dagger. It is useful, it has its place in his kit, but it is overwhelmingly boring and type of ability which could be removed from his kit and nobody would miss it.

Grave Robber:

Who can't love casual 80 damage crits? She single handedly ended boss fight for me prematurely. It what Jester was supposed to be with his Finale, but unlike that crappy ability, she can do it every second turn. She is invisible most of the time which makes her very resistant to attacks simply by the virtue of mobs having no tools to deal with invisibility on your end. Her kit is also very flexible. She can hit most mobs from most positions. She has armor piercing on her main attack which is a giant advantage over Highwayman who has only normal attack or just bleed to deal with tough enemies. In addition, she buffs herself with her attacks.

Her daggers give her very useful accuracy bonuses. While she also can get a lot of extra ranged damage with blight or marks. She synergizes very well with a lot of classes. She also has useful AoE and a buff. However, this is where she falls short for me. While Highwayman has very useful self buff, her buff is quite questionable. Dodge and SPD buffs on already fast class is not very good. Her second issue is that she requires synergy with other classes for maximum benefit and she is very swingy. You have to sacrifice an entire turn for her Lunge attacks. This means that poor luck can really screw you up and fights can drag on if she isn't delivering massive blows. Her camping skills are also a letdown. Unlike Highwayman which good skills, she doesn't get anything which would benefit her and she do benefit immensely with accuracy and damage buffs. Try stacking damage on her and crit chance and get ready to one shot bosses!

[RopeDrink]

Crusader:
He doesn't have anything in his kit which would make him useful.

Comments like this are why I don't really bother with these threads. I'd spend more time pointing out the nonsense rather than sharing my own opinion.

Crusader is arguably the most balanced hero and the ultimate generalist. Saying he has nothing useful is like calling Leper god-tier good.

[Wintermute]

I somewhat dislike leper as well but you are too harsh on him, he has a camping skill called reflection that gives him 10 accuracy and %8 crit for just 3 respite points. Also you can easily boost his accuracy with party wide buffers like MAA/Jester as well. It is true that he can be inflexible and extremely vulnerable to shuffles but he can indeed hit like a truck compared to the other characters. You need to build teams works in tandem that synergize well to minimize such situations.

Also wicked slice is better than open vein, it has a high crit mod and damage buff while open vein has a damage debuff, low crit mod and there is a chance that enemy can resist the bleed. Highwayman is my favourite too but he can get shutdown easily with stuns(his riposte doesnt work while stunned) and guards

[Nightbringer]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

Crusader:
He doesn't have anything in his kit which would make him useful.

Comments like this are why I don't really bother with these threads. I'd spend more time pointing out the nonsense rather than sharing my own opinion.

Crusader is arguably the most balanced hero and the ultimate generalist. Saying he has nothing useful is like calling Leper god-tier good.

It is better to say nothing than to make a fool of yourself. Since now I have to ask you to yet again read what I wrote about Crusader.

[RopeDrink]

You need to build teams works in tandem that synergize well to minimize such situations.

Which is exactly why you are almost always better off NOT taking a Leper at all, as taking one opens up more gaps than it plugs.

There's a huge difference between forming a well-greased comp where all four heroes complement each other, versus a comp that has to try and elevate one particular hero.

I somewhat dislike leper as well but you are too harsh on him, he has a camping skill called reflection that gives him 10 accuracy and %8 crit for just 3 respite points.

Increasing his damage and accuracy with a greedy camping skill doesn't actually change what makes him such a low-tier hero in the first place. If anything, it just compounds the problem further now that you've invested camping points into it as well.

It is true that he can be inflexible and extremely vulnerable to shuffles but he can indeed hit like a truck compared to the other characters.

Against what is commonly the lowest priority ranks in the whole game, and often at very low speed.

-----

People absolutely can go overboard when criticizing the Leper -- he certainly does have some usage. Alas, almost everyone else has far more/better.

Also wicked slice is better than open vein, it has a high crit mod and damage buff while open vein has a damage debuff, low crit mod and there is a chance that enemy can resist the bleed.

A clear case of basing it purely on numbers you want. Their usage goes way beyond +/- damage/crit mods. In fact, it might be a reason why you feel compelled to defend the Leper somehow, seeing as he's Mr.HighestBaselineDamage, yet is one of the most atrocious damage-dealers when considering how the game actually works.

[Nightbringer]

Originally posted by Efimov:

I somewhat dislike leper as well but you are too harsh on him, he has a camping skill called reflection that gives him 10 accuracy and %8 crit for just 3 respite points. Also you can easily boost his accuracy with party wide buffers like MAA/Jester as well. It is true that he can be inflexible and extremely vulnerable to shuffles but he can indeed hit like a truck compared to the other characters. You need to build teams works in tandem that synergize well to minimize such situations.

Also wicked slice is better than open vein, it has a high crit mod and damage buff while open vein has a damage debuff, low crit mod and there is a chance that enemy can resist the bleed. Highwayman is my favourite too but he can get shutdown easily with stuns(his riposte doesnt work while stunned) and guards

I do not like Leper, because he needs so much help and he isn't much better than the other classes. Too much inflexibility for too little value.

[RopeDrink]

Since now I have to ask you to yet again read what I wrote about Crusader.

I did. It's a contradictory and inaccurate mess.

[Nightbringer]

First of all, it was a thread about your favourite/disliked classes. You did not understood that and instead started arguing about someone's else opinion. Bravo...

Secondly, I said that Crusader is a solid choice, has a well rounded kit (mediocre). However, you of course did not got any of this, because you wanted to stroke your ego and start a fight. You should better listen to your own advise and not talk with people.

Jeez, people in this forum...

[No One]

OCC-BH-CRU-LEP
GR-VES-HM-CRU
ARB-HM-BH-CRU
HM-PD-CRU-FLG

Making the leper work is a challenge, for sure. Remember, revenge is boss-only. Though yes, every leper party can be improved by removing the leper in favour of someone else. The above is mainly so I can wait for them to be down a full 22 before the OCC has to start healing.
I shouldn't really say [every leper party], because e.g. the leper absolutely dunks on the prophet and one or two other bosses.
Likewise, most highwayman parties can be improved by removing the highwayman. Not 100% like the leper, but most. If riposte is any good it means you're being hit. Better plan: don't get hit.
HWM, LEP, (and HEL) suffer from the fact that damage, especially medium/slow damage, just isn't that valuable in DD. HEL at least has a stun. In particular, large damage to front row is bottom-tier.

CRU has two unique niches.
1: soothing from the front rows. He's kind of bad at it but having it is very different from not having it.
2: Soothing and healing from a single slot. If you want to build a weird gimmick party you can focus hard on the gimmick by compressing the vestal/jester into one guy.

[Nightbringer]

The thing is, I just like Leper the least of all classes and gave my reasons why I dislike it. I do like how hard he can hit, but that alone does not compensate for everything else. I do not if it is a coincidence, but 2/4 heroes which died are Lepers and both of them had died in late game while two other heroes died in early game for me. I just do not enjoy playing that class and I'm least interest in making it work.

Similarly with Crusader. I just don't like that class. When I take him, he feels like a solid class. He always delivers, but he doesn't do anything interesting for me to like him. His quirk is that he is good against unholy. I take him when I expect to fight unholy boss or a lot of undead, but other than that, he is too niche and generic for me to like him.

Remember, it is less about what class is the best or worse, but which classes you like or dislike and I just like those classes the least out of entire roster.

[Wintermute]

A clear case of basing it purely on numbers you want. Their usage goes way beyond +/- damage/crit mods. In fact, it might be a reason why you feel compelled to defend the Leper somehow, seeing as he's Mr.HighestBaselineDamage, yet is one of the most atrocious damage-dealers when considering how the game actually works.

Darkest Dungeon is indeed a numbers game though. It is true that utility heroes that can stun and shuffle enemies around are extremely valuable too but in the end it all depends on whether you can finish the job or not.

Low speed of Leper and Crusader works in favour of them considering it allows your more utility oriented heroes to buff/stun/suffle, if you have that much of a problem with the frontliners because of high protection you can get them to the front, decimating the squishy backliners. Also Leper's solemnity can hp heal and stress heal concurrently, which both are higher than the crusaders.

Honestly your whole critique is unnecessarily pedantic; it is definitely all right to include him, you can even quad leper and win lol

[RopeDrink]

Crusader:

2 HP short of Leper > the highest health hero in the game. Given he's already a sustain-bot, it all adds up to Cru being an obnoxious meatsack.

Baseline damage equivalent to Hellion > one of the best damage-dealers in the game (for reasons that aren't as simple as 'baseline' numbers), albeit at a slightly lower crit-rate compared to her, with a type-mod that can have him compete with the best in a particular zone. Alas, he falls short for similar reasons to the Leper -- the limited range of his bread-and-butter, and an alternative back-rank nuke that requires completely different positioning.

Speaking of which, you can replace said bread-and-butter with the hardest-hitting stun in the game and not feel bad about it, leaving three slots for skills of your choice. The stun component is serviceable but can't be projected, yet given his speed, this isn't much of a problem considering how you'd often use him.

Can heal any rank from any rank.

Can stress-heal any rank from any rank (with a micro heal tied to it for good measure), which is crit-capable, making it possible to sheal+heal for more. Both can be complemented via a handy selection of class trinkets.

Mobile, thanks to a back-rank hitting lunge, complimenting the fact that he can function anywhere in various capacities, meaning he doesn't care about shuffle and can help remedy it for others. Alternatively, you can plop him up-front as a stun-bot meatsack. Given he's the ultimate generalist, he can fit into so many comps it's not even funny.

Has serviceable camping skills - albeit mostly expensive.

His one true statistical detriment - being the slowest hero in the game - can actually be (by accident or design) favorable. The only other complaint is that his potencies - specifically sustain-related - are lacking. A small price to pay for his flexibility.

Also, is part of one of the more popular DD meme videos (which, despite centering on humor, does display some of the overall package):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj2HvGPv0XM

Also Leper's solemnity can hp heal and stress heal concurrently, which both are higher than the crusaders.

While we're at it, shall we compare HM's self-heal to a Vestal's target heal? Crusader can heal or sheal anyone. Leper can only sustain himself. There's a massive difference.

Fun fact - Leper's self-heal only acquired a stress-heal after the rework, mostly because people took one look at Absolution on the Abomination and laughed at the Leper some more.

Honestly your whole critique is unnecessarily pedantic; it is definitely all right to include him, you can even quad leper and win lol

You can beat the game with quad antiquarians if you really wanted to. Doesn't change the fact that Leper IS that bad. He's the closest thing to an anti-meta choice. I'm merely pointing out that the 'but he's not that bad' explanations only partially address one of the umpteen reasons why he's stuck at the bottom -- and has been since the very beginning.

[Slippery Williams]

Just jumped into here to share my love for this highwayman combo

- give him the highwayman trinket that gives +7% to melee crits
- give him the rare trinket that gives a massive speed and crit boost on the first round only
- open every single battle with duellists advance, hopefully doing great crit damage
- sit back and watch every enemy who attacks him right after that turn get crit damage killed due to duellists advance activating riposte

It’s basically a death sentence to any enemy that has an attack that hits your entire party


Edit: Also Lepers are total badasses

[Gamefever]

I understand you dont like Leper.

I would like for my Leper to have the +ACC Trait but it does not pop up for me. Trinket wise the Leper needs the +ACC and right now I just have the helmet for +5% which is almost enough...Kind of need 10-15ACC bonus to make the Chop and Hew awesome.

Intimidate is crazy though cause its not actually about de-stealth that is a bonus, its about the -33% damage debuff which is huge its one of the best in the game and it can hit any position. Problem at 140% might want to actually put a debuff trinket on there to make it work all the time.

Revenge though, that makes the Leper really work...
+15ACC which makes sure it hits.
+35% Damage increase dang that is insane we just needed the ACC but get that too?
+11% Crit, not that we needed it but nice.

So essentially the Leper is not for fights you intend to have wrapped up in the first turn such as the randoms. Leper is a hard hitting meant for bosses.

My current Leper has Guard which is crazy cause it can literally smack down a critter on the 1st turn before it gets its 1st turn....Problem is still the accuracy though.
Combined with Unholy Slayer that makes ruins runs pretty good for my Leper though.

Issue it hinges on either figuring your using it for boss fights that take a while or you have the right traits locked in.

[Magni]

Sigh, I just remember the pre-nerf lawnmower Leper, when he just completely stomped Endless Harvest and was finally truly worth having on the roster.

Originally posted by Nightbringer:

It is better to say nothing than to make a fool of yourself. Since now I have to ask you to yet again read what I wrote about Crusader.

What you wrote is, frnakly, wrong.

He's got a very good HP pool, above-average base damage and a moveset that includes a basic attack with a specific damage bonus, a very good stun, a heavy-hitting lunge move that functions well in dance lineups and for bringing him back to the front, a middling heal, a middling stress heal that can also pull someone from Death's Door and two moves nobody really uses.

This is a tremendously flexible and useful frontliner package that can provide something useful to the party under almost any circumstances. His low speed is about the only really bad thing about him. Oh, and his camping skills are decent.

You say that he doesn't do anything "interesting". But, well, that's kind of the point IMO. He just does just about anything that needs to be done decently well, and that is something that can be a boon to almost any lineup. He's not the superstar making the big plays, he's that rock solid foundation that the rest of the team can rely on to make theirs.

[Gamefever]

Last Will and Testament and Tin Flute

These may not appear to be that great but its +15ACC for the Leper that is OMG tier for that guy.