Who uses the Ancestor's Map & Lantern?

[SergeTroy]

When it comes to using the 'Ancestor's Map' and 'Lantern,' I find it extremely difficult to defend putting both in any one party. The benefits are real, but the loss of personal combat effectiveness for any one or two heroes makes the assigning of those items very hard to justify: give both Trinket's to a hero, and they better be a pretty good utility hero as they are losing out on trinkets that would boost their personal impact once battle actually starts. By example, I'll use my regular 'Crimson Court' party comp to better illustrate my reasoning.

• Position 4 Vestal, usually equipped with either a pair of healing trinkets ('Chirugeon's Charm,' 'Junia's Head,' the 'Ancestor's Scroll,' etc.) or one of those and the 'Prophet's Eye' (stress reduction and increased speed, plus accuracy for her Dazzling Light and Judgement).
  
• Position 3 Jester outfitted with the Ancestor's Map and the Bright Tambourine (for increased stress heals and reduced personal stress in the Courtyard). Running Harvest, Slice Off, Party Ballad, and Inspiring Tune.
  Considering the way I use the Jester, for stress healing, increasing party accuracy, speed, and crit chance, it makes sense that he of all the heroes is best built around utility and would be the only one of them all I would put both the Map and the Lantern on. Side Note: I've made a point of locking in quirks like Hard Skinned, Tough, and Unyielding on my Jester's, to bolster their innate squishiness.
  
• Position 2 Man-at-Arms equipped with something like the 'Old Unit Standard' and a 'Sun Ring.' Running Rampart, Bellow, Defender, Retribution (maybe switching out Retribution for Crush)
  
• Position 1 Hellion equipped with the 'Ancestor's Candle' and a 'Sun Ring.' Running Wicked Hack, Iron Swan, If It Bleeds, and Adrenaline Rush.

I might swap out the Hellion or the MaA for a Flagellant (seeing as how he was practically built for this dungeon), equipped with the 'Martyr's Seal' and a 'Bleed Amulet,' running Punish, Exsanguinate, Redeem, and Suffer.

Of al the Adventurer's in the game - save perhaps for the Antiquarian - I cannot think of any other class I would set up with such a pure utility in terms of Trinkets assigned. Even were I to sub in a Hound Master in place of the Jester, I would still be bolstering his speed, accuracy and damage well above his scouting chance. The Jester's primary method of damage is coming from the Bleed DOT's he applies with Harvest and Slice Off. Even were I to be using something of a Finale Jester, with Dirk Stab and (dur) Finale, the Stab is usually best for finishing off a weak or already damaged enemy while building up to the Finale.

Do other player's handle how they choose to equip the 'Map' and 'Lantern' differenty? If so, where do you put them, and is it worth it?

[CloudSeeker]

I have no problem using them in combat. I do however think you have the wrong team. The MMA shouldn't be in slot 2, he is a support character more used to defend and ripost. Slot 2 is for your secondary DPS character. If you use:

Vestal > MMA > BH > Helion

You can easily fitt those on. Just give the map to the BH and the lantern to the MMA. If the BH got scouting perks active it is pretty strong. However you can just ignore the lantern if you use the map since you can't be suprised when you scouted anyway.

EDIT:
Do not use the Prophet's Eye on a Vestal. She isn't there to hit things, I see it as something for a Arbalest or PD.

[No One]

I often don't even bother with the map.

That said if you're playing on full dark (true hard mode) then they're both tremendously important, as getting shuffled is simply a reality of pitch black runs.

[SergeTroy]

Originally posted by CloudSeeker:

I have no problem using them in combat. I do however think you have the wrong team. The MMA shouldn't be in slot 2, he is a support character more used to defend and ripost. Slot 2 is for your secondary DPS character. If you use:

Vestal > MMA > BH > Helion

You can easily fitt those on. Just give the map to the BH and the lantern to the MMA. If the BH got scouting perks active it is pretty strong. However you can just ignore the lantern if you use the map since you can't be suprised when you scouted anyway.

EDIT:
Do not use the Prophet's Eye on a Vestal. She isn't there to hit things, I see it as something for a Arbalest or PD.

The Man-at-Arms works quite well in any spot, with the somewhat notable exception of rank 4, where he gives up all attack options for pure buffing and defense. If you're using him in the Courtyard, the one issue with pairing him with classes like the Hellion or Leper is that you may decide to rampart an enemy with a doable Stun Resist, and that can keep the Hellion from using abilities like Iron Swan or Bleed Out. The Jester OTOH, is best suited in the current meta to a starting position of 3 or 4 (RIP Finale). And having a Jester or Houndmaster in the Courtyard is invaluable as if you want to grind through as much of an area as possible, guaranteed stress heals prevent spikes in stress damage from forcing a retreat.

The Vestal gains a massive bonus to her healing from Junia's Head, but this comes at the cost of +20% stress; she is also a rather slow character (maybe the slowest, I disremember), and gaining speed for your healer can help counter unexpected death's door checks from Bleeds & Blights. The accuracy bonus is something that allows her to contribute more than purely constant healing. You can do nohting with her but heal, but if all you do is heal with her you've given up on greater utility and options. Judgement is a fantastic way to heal, do damage, and stress heal because there are two chances to crit on this one ability: the attack and the self heal are considered seperate actions, even though you can't get one without the other.

[SergeTroy]

Originally posted by No One:

I often don't even bother with the map.

That said if you're playing on full dark (true hard mode) then they're both tremendously important, as getting shuffled is simply a reality of pitch black runs.

That is a really good point: I generally stop doing dark runs once I get to the point where the Lantern is available, and so I rarely consider how the Lantern serves as a safeguard to scouting. Thanks mate! :)

[Timus]

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

When it comes to using the 'Ancestor's Map' and 'Lantern,' I find it extremely difficult to defend putting both in any one party. …

Do you mean both at the same time? That I wouldn’t do, or at least haven’t done yet. The Lantern is only available very late game, whereas, with a bit of luck, the Map can be ‚acquired‘ pretty early. The CC Houndmaster trinket Evidence of Corruption does both at the same time, +25% scouting and -15% chance of being surprised, which is really nice.

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

… Do other player's handle how they choose to equip the 'Map' and 'Lantern' differenty? If so, where do you put them, and is it worth it?

I do almost exclusively dark runs, so scouting is absolutely essential. And the Map is among the best scouting trinkets. I also use the Seer Stone, Scouting Whistle, Evidence of Corruption, and Raider’s Talisman regularly. The Houndmaster gets the Scouting Whistle or Evidence of Corruption if I have it, so usually the Map goes to the Man-at-Arms, the Occultist, the Arbalest, the Jester, the Flagellant, or the Antiquarian.

[No One]

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

Thanks mate! :)

Welcome.

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

(maybe the slowest, I disremember)

The leper and crusader are both significantly slower. I can think of some reasons they might slip your mind.