Occultist crit 0 heal and bleed dismas to dead in turn 1

[1632189633]

so i was in crimson court and dismas get a crit to dead door in turn one then i use wyrd reconstruction from Occultist who then crit 0 heal and bleed him, dismas then get death blow and die the next turn from bleeding

10/10 darkest dungeon experience would uninstall again

[Raven Guertena]

Well maybe try to be more lucky with it.
or level them up a bit more for higher bleed resist

[Dr. Uncredible]

Ahh, classic.
My humblest sympathies, though remember, this is a risk you take when you have an occultist as a main healer.
Even if he hadn´t actually murdered Mr Dissy, he migh just as well have healed for 3-4 damage, rendering the heal near useless.
A common trick is to pair it with an arbalest, and have her do guaranteed heals to take characters off death´s door and using the occultist to put their health back up once they´re off mortal danger.

[Thenais]

at death door, you need a fiable heal :p

[No One]

1. Letting someone hit death's door.
2. Letting your OCC have nonzero bleed chance.
3. Knowing these in advance and not bringing a backup healer.

[Kaerius]

If you're so bent out of shape about it, it's trivial to "fix" it by editing the occultist hero info json, to either raise the minimum heal or remove the bleed chance, or both.

[Sir Francis]

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:

At first, I used occultists exclusively to heal adventurers when they were at their death-doors, until I upgraded the vestals properly and that is why occultists are good "luck-healers".

They are bad healers if they are used this way, for reasons you experienced yourself.

[Sir Francis]

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:

Originally posted by 𝔉𝔯𝔞𝔫𝔠𝔦𝔰:

They are bad healers if they are used this way, for reasons you experienced yourself.

No, this is the only case when they are good healers. They're RNG healers, nothing more.

Yes, they are "RNG-Healers", which is exactly the reason why you should start healing before your heroes even lose half their HP, like that you can afford a whiff or two.
Playing them your way kills people, as you described.
A healer which lets people die is a bad healer.
Playing them my way keeps heroes alive consistently over hundreds of hours of playtime.
That makes them good healers, if played correctly.

TLDR: You treat your heroes like cannon fodder and are mad if they die, somehow.

[1632189633]

Originally posted by 𝔉𝔯𝔞𝔫𝔠𝔦𝔰:

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:

No, this is the only case when they are good healers. They're RNG healers, nothing more.

Yes, they are "RNG-Healers", which is exactly the reason why you should start healing before your heroes even lose half their HP, like that you can afford a whiff or two.
Playing them your way kills people, as you described.
A healer which lets people die is a bad healer.
Playing them my way keeps heroes alive consistently over hundreds of hours of playtime.
That makes them good healers, if played correctly.

TLDR: You treat your heroes like cannon fodder and are mad if they die, somehow.

sometime you don't even get a chance to heal because giant crit your hero in turn 1 for 60 damage bro

[Sir Francis]

Originally posted by OriginalUserName:

Originally posted by 𝔉𝔯𝔞𝔫𝔠𝔦𝔰:

Yes, they are "RNG-Healers", which is exactly the reason why you should start healing before your heroes even lose half their HP, like that you can afford a whiff or two.
Playing them your way kills people, as you described.
A healer which lets people die is a bad healer.
Playing them my way keeps heroes alive consistently over hundreds of hours of playtime.
That makes them good healers, if played correctly.

TLDR: You treat your heroes like cannon fodder and are mad if they die, somehow.

I think you're very confused:

1. I'm not the OP, I'm not mad when cannon fodders die

2. the occultist is not guaranteed to kill the heroes, especially if you have a vestal with group-heal near

3. I recommend the occultist only for RNG heals for low-level heroes because it's only useful for that

4. You didn't describe "your way" in this thread at all

1. Pardon my confusion,

2. No, but he CAN kill them if used on heroes on DD and if the timing and/or RNG dont go in your favour.

3. i also recommend to only do risky things when there is little to lose, but why do risky things at all?

4. My way is described in the post you quoted:
Start healing before anyone even gets below 50% HP, like that the occultist is a safe and reliable main healer, that is almost as good as the vestal.

[Rilgar55]

Those juicy 0 crit heals with bleed on top

[RopeDrink]

"Sometime you don't even get a chance to heal because giant crit your hero in turn 1 for 60 damage bro" is all you need to know. Lacking preemptive mindset and/or super-slow group and/or no-stuns letting things slap you for 30-60 damage and then relying on OCCRNG to save the day in Veteran/Champion dungeons is not going to do you any favours.

(As for the rest):

VES is ALWAYS better in every 'healing' situation. While you may love the occasional full-HP mega-crit from an OCC, he has the exact same chance of healing for 0-2 when you need it the most, and you will need it the most if you're sitting there letting an Unclean Giant freely slap you for 60 damage crits.

Consistency is infinitely more valuable. After all, this entire game is all about REDUCING RNG and increasing your options over the AI. A few trinkets will have VES pumping out massive single-target heals and/or moderate party heals for full-group recovery, and the numbers are always rock-solid. As nice as it is for WYRD to 0-100% you in a single press, there is nothing about it that makes it better than VES's options. The only benefit is that it can ALSO be used in Rank 1, whereas VES must be in at least Rank 2 to cast 1/2 heals (and it's the best heal in the game, so no loss there). As said, for every life-saving mega-heal there is another person with a hero on Death's Door eating a 0-Crit-Bleed.

The difference maker is the REST of their kit. In situations where no healing is required, you'd be better off with an OCC for the most part. Fantastic stun, good damage, good projection, usable utility etc, and an off-heal-from-anywhere, whereas the Vestal is stuck being a Judgement/Dazzling bot, unless you're playing a cheesy Rank 2 melee Vestal healer.

OCC, to me, will always be a good assassin and a handy off-healer. I know others play him almost exclusively as a main-healer (which no doubt involves lots of off-healing or self-sustain and pre-emptive heals), but why would I do that when I can have one slot handling all of that and the other three doing 75% of the work at no risk at all? Fun you say? When I want fun, I head into a dungeon as Quad-OCC or something a bit more crazy.

[1632189633]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

"Sometime you don't even get a chance to heal because giant crit your hero in turn 1 for 60 damage bro" is all you need to know. Lacking preemptive mindset and/or super-slow group and/or no-stuns letting things slap you for 30-60 damage and then relying on OCCRNG to save the day in Veteran/Champion dungeons is not going to do you any favours.

tell that to my surprise trinket + camping skill but still get surprise mdf by monster

[Knight Silver]

If you give the Occultist a ton of healing buffs (that aren't available early on) he could easily be the strongest healer, lowest I've healed with +45% healing was 13

[RopeDrink]

Originally posted by Black Rabbit:

tell that to my surprise trinket + camping skill but still get surprise mdf by monster

This has absolutely nothing to do with the comment you quoted (or the topic for that matter), so what I said still stands.

Originally posted by Knight Silver:

If you give the Occultist a ton of healing buffs (that aren't available early on) he could easily be the strongest healer, lowest I've healed with +45% healing was 13

No. It is absolutely impossible for OCC to 'easily be the strongest healer' when discussing raw healing.

Every level of Wyrd starts at 0 and +% cannot change a 0 into something else. Healing trinkets are mostly wasted on an OCC because they do nothing to 0's, and if he rolls high, that high-roll was likely already a strong enough heal by itself even without trinkets, especially if he crits, so you're only truly gaining benefit when they roll up smaller or medium heals to something a bit better.

Meanwhile, everything a Vestal does is consistent and can be made extremely potent, nevermind the fact she has an ST and AoE heal both being effected by those modifiers. No healer in the game can compete with her when discussing raw healing unless all you value are overheals, provided you turn a blind eye to all the times this doesn't happen due to the huge gap between 0-Max.

Slap a Junia's Head + 2nd Healing trinket on an OCC and yes, he can still 0-crit-bleed. If he rolls a 1-3, those trinkets are not doing much either. Meanwhile, Vestal will be pumping out meaty across the entire party every single time without fail. The only benefit of having an OCC over a VES is a) he can do it from any rank and b) he has a better overall kit for everything non-healing related.

[epic meow]

classic