Is it just me or is support crusader really good.

[Jesterofgames7712]

At least on apprentice levels.

First off Holy lance is super strong and can hit the third and forth position really hard with no set up. And can be repeated Ad nauseam with a highway men/second crusader/Man at arms/jester/Shield breaker.

Secondly inspiring cry is a decent stress heal with the chance to crit on it’s small health heal increasing it’s stress heal.

And even if he’s in the second row and can’t use holy lance? he can use a stun, or inspiring cry, or just Smite someone.


Even his really low health heal battle heal helps out with an occultists inconsistent heal, or a flagellants slow regen heal.

When paired with a jester in the back rows he can help focus a stressed team mate or burn down a third and fourth row squishy stress nuke (with minor stalling to focus the anyone they did hit.)

[Sir Francis]

Yeah, he fills like the classic paladin role.

[RopeDrink]

Crusader is one of the few generalists who can fill any gap you need. Since his lance was buffed during CoM, he's been infinitely more useful as a back-rank support who does damage when needed, but can otherwise heal and stress-heal.

I always deviate to Crusaders when I want a stress-healer with a less finicky kit compared to Jester, who typically resorts to bleeds and doesn't want to be up close too much. Failing that, he can always fill the healer role. Fits into static or shuffle comps perfectly fine and pairs even better with Highwaymen, seeing as Crusader can push the HWM back when you want to keep them in the middle-ranks for projection (and guaranteeing this due to their SPD differences).

In short, Crusader is the token well rounded hero who is good at many things (without being particularly amazing at anything). One could argue that he is the most balanced hero in the roster.

[Lord Oink]

i consider him one of the top 3 worst heroes

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Felicia:

i consider him one of the top 3 worst heroes

Why do you feel that way?

I’ve seen some of your reasons before but I’d like some clerifications
Such as why you feel he does mediocre damage?

And while I agree his heal is bad it’s because he’s suppose to help support a normal healer. Not be a healer.

[RopeDrink]

And while I agree his heal is bad it’s because he’s suppose to help support a normal healer. Not be a healer.

This is the wrong mentality (and part of the reason said person is needlessly bashing the class). Good play can be sustained by a measly Antiquarian if you wish - which involves preventing damage before it happens so less healing is required overall. A Crusader helps with this more than a Vestal would - the only reason you'd take her instead is because she's the best safety-net in the game.

One of the mistakes a previous poster made was publicly stating "OCC was mandatory" (ie. mega-phat heals = only heals worth considering), yet spent his time stacking multiple healers, not doing enough damage and, as a result, needing all the healing because of an endless loop of just sitting around eating too much damage. Vestal is the most powerful 'healer' in the game but lacks in every other department, so one could argue that having one is indeed a massive safety net but also a reason you take more damage compared to a damage dealer. Compare that to a Crusader who can lance back-rank priorities (and typically delete them outright) and help wipe up the damage from anywhere via heals and stress-heals. Up front, his stun is not much better than a Vestal's, stun-wise, yet hits much, much harder - so much that you can remove Smite from your bar and slot in more support buttons.

Crusader has quite a few trinkets that can make both his heal & stress-heal relatively solid (and +healing also adds more to HP restored via stress-healing). It doesn't matter how you're using him (be it up-front meatsack or back-rank support), he can heal and stress-heal regardless whenever nothing else is required, and either prevent damage with lance (back) or stun (front) inbetween. JES & VES (best shealer and healer) are positioning dependent, making CRU an option to wrap both into one, especially in bursty shuffle comps designed to wipe fights ASAP.

Again, his only hard detriment is that he's the slowest hero in the game (which waters this down a bit) and that his front-rank skills are bettered by any other stunner/assassin. He's still not as potent as specialists, but one of the three 'catch-all' heroes who are great at covering multiple gaps in a comp without resorting to multiple specialists.

As said, he's the token well-rounded (arguably 'most balanced') hero who is smack-bang in the middle of the tier list.

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

And while I agree his heal is bad it’s because he’s suppose to help support a normal healer. Not be a healer.

Crusader has quite a few trinkets that can make both his heal & stress-heal relatively solid (and +healing also adds more to HP restored via stress-healing). It doesn't matter how you're using him (be it up-front meatsack or back-rank support), he can heal and stress-heal regardless whenever nothing else is required, and either prevent damage with lance (back) or stun (front) inbetween..

Which trinkets would you say us best to help him be a healer? I ask because I’m really bad about needing healers in dungeons.

I lost Raynald part due to my own stupidity, part due to bad play, and part due to being ambushed by a collector and thing from the stars.

[RopeDrink]

He's a prime target for an Ancestor's Scroll as it increases both healing AND stress-healing. His set-trinket from the Court also does the exact same (with no drawback): +20% to sheals and heals.

That doesn't include various other green and blue trinkets (class-based or otherwise).

[No One]

The crusader can soothe stress from the front rows. I consider it unique for various FLG reasons. I especially enjoy the HM/CRU combo since cry havoc can do the bulk stuff while CRU gets into the corners the HM has trouble reaching, plus you get all the other HM utility instead of a jester's fragility.

If you're trying to finesse your torch buys, sometimes you'll miscount. The crusader has your back.

A crusader crit by an unclean giant will end up with a backbreaking 5 hp, but bulwark brings it up to a manageable 22. All you need is something to protect the other frontliner. E.g. they can crit your FLG for 60 but he just thinks it's funny.

Really low speed is better than middling speed IMO. Going last in the second round is a lot like going first in the third round. In both cases you can react to what happened in the second round. Can patch up death's doors after all the enemy crits are in, for example, whereas a middling speed (VES) has to hope the fast enemies don't get lucky in the next round.

In HM-PD-CRU-FLG, CRU covers the PD's lack of row 1 stun, the FLG's lack of stun and self-heal, and the HM's RNG. Meanwhile the rest cover for CRU's lack of speed.

With GR-VES-HM-CRU you can go fancy and give the HM rush-mark-stun-soothe, using the GR to mode switch between stun and soothe.

My only real problem with CRU: either his stun is crap or his heals are crap, and you need three trinket slots to fix that. I typically go for +heal +stun, meaning he can't reliably stun double-wides and he misses all the time.

I should try ARB-♥♥♥-CRU-SBR where everyone is using their +prot -stress gear.

[RopeDrink]

I rarely use him as a stunner any more - and when I do stunning blow, it's often for the damage more than the stun. Late-game, it'll do some impressive numbers.

I take Smite off my bar entirely and always roll with Heal-Stun-Lance-SHeal, almost exclusively in the back-rank. He's either lancing a priority (usually 1-2 other heroes have killed a different one, leaving him to cleanup the other (or help with any excess damage/stress if that isn't required). There's a bit more leeway for ACC+Recovery compared to Stun+Recovery (because stuns also require ACC, as you mentioned). Lance without +DMG can still be meaty. At the same time, flubbing a Lance (when you have dedicated stunners) isn't as bad as flubbing a stun (esp. if you don't have other stunners about).

Especially love pairing them with a HWM. The SPD difference ensures HWM can get Riposte, be pushed back by Lance without fail, and always be free to decide between melee, the extra projection of Pistol Shot, or refresh Riposte (or vice versa - ensure CRU can always lance by pushing him back). You could say the same for a ShB in any situation where you absolutely must keep them out of Rank 1 or 2 for some reason.

GR-GR-CRU is possible, albeit you'll typically always have GRs fighting initiative rolls, but you can at least push one back for an additional Lunge (and a bit of luck can keep it rolling). Besides, double-lunge is often 75% or 50% of a fight done instantly anyway, but that's not exactly a popular playstyle. Regardless, CRU can cushion any blow no matter where he is, whereas a VES being pushed around or stuck up front in a full-on shuffle-comp (or a regular shuffle to R1) isn't as smooth, even if she's an infinitely better healer.

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

I rarely use him as a stunner any more - and when I do stunning blow, it's often for the damage more than the stun. Late-game, it'll do some impressive numbers.

Why take stunning blow over smite then?
I’m actually curious.

[No One]

If the crusader didn't have inspiring cry he's just be a little mans with no speed and poor reach. Because he does have inspiring cry, the rest of his kit makes him pretty okay actually.

I tried the prot/-stress team, just to see if Red Hook was maybe not on crack. Though with PD instead of ♥♥♥ for reasons. It wasn't very good, and my team had 3/4 photomania because week 350+. Not to mention my SBR with first turn +60% damage. I forgot to bring herbs to the cove, which gave RNG an opening to nuke down my SBR. She didn't actually take any deathblow checks but it's like hey: maybe bring a real team next time, yeah? Turns out -30% stress is pretty nice against the Thing, though.

[RopeDrink]

Why take stunning blow over smite then?

The most likely scenario for a shuffle (intended or otherwise) involves stun being a better option than a mediocre bread and butter against a measly Rank 1 or Rank 2 non-priority target, especially meaty ones that are there to waste your time while Rank 3 or Rank 4 are causing trouble. Considering CRU's speed, you will often stun an enemy after it has had a turn, leaving you free to use the next for recovery (particularly against single targets).

Smite is only really worth it in the early game, particularly in ruins, where you can probably swap that stun-risk for a potentially one-shotted undead. Stunning Blow will later hit about the same as an unupgraded Smite and is often the better option against most R1-R2 enemies if you care about sustaining your team (particularly in Vet & Champ).

In short, I take those skills because they are his most useful buttons and there's not many reasons to ever change them. I use those same four buttons in all content types, which ensures that he is always useful no matter where he is, typically by making everyone else's life easier one way or another. The big-phat-damagez you can leave to much faster heroes. Crusader's forte was never his damage output.

[Jesterofgames7712]

So I tried a vet dungeon (slaying the vet prophet.) with a plague doctor, Crusader As a healer, a highwaymen (for duelist advance + Holy lance since my highway man has quirks that give him + 4 speed.) and man at arms (with 50% Protection due to trinkets.)

It worked out out surprisingly well i was only able to get one pew though cause my MAA and HWM killed the prophet so fast via ripostes. (And I was nervous going any longer.)

[Malu]

That's kinda the only way I play him

[Lord Oink]

Originally posted by Jesterofgames7712:

Originally posted by Felicia:

i consider him one of the top 3 worst heroes

Why do you feel that way?

I’ve seen some of your reasons before but I’d like some clerifications
Such as why you feel he does mediocre damage?

And while I agree his heal is bad it’s because he’s suppose to help support a normal healer. Not be a healer.

what good is a jack of all trades who does nothing beyond “ok”. hes got nothing he can do that another hero can’t do way better. i dont need a blunt swiss army knife.