Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

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Ittrix Apr 4, 2020 @ 4:25pm
When should I start The Crimson Court?
Hey all, bought the game awhile back. I did about half of a playthrough on the easiest difficulty, then found it too easy so I started a new file with all the DLCs on the medium difficulty.

I already poked around and found out that The Crimson Court can be (or at least used to be) pretty nasty to your game if you don't do well in it initially. Does this still hold true?
I'm okay with getting my butt kicked some (it's pretty refreshing from your average game to be honest), but some people described it as though I may as well start over if I do poorly.
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Showing 1-15 of 16 comments
Enfild Apr 4, 2020 @ 5:28pm 
Honestly, i find crimson court really annoying more than anything. It ♥♥♥♥♥ you over, because it forces you to go into new location, but at the same time it doesnt let you until you get invitations. I wouldnt say it is not manageable, but i found it as really frustrating experience. Although, i started on already completed save, so part of my gripe may come from the fact that game doesn't let you play DLC until you get invitations, which are just timegated.
Also, crimson curse cant outrite ruin your game now, you get just enough sources of blood, but still is a pain to deal with. And it is not that helpful, imo.

So, i would say do not activate Court from the start, but rather wait around mid-game. That way you will have trinkets and upgrades to do ok inside, and you will have something to do outside, while game timegates you.

P.S. Radiant isn't really that much easier, as far as i remember, all hero and monster stats are the same. What is different is upgrade cost and level restrictions, so, start of the game and endgame in radiant and normal are exactly the same in combat difficulty.
Last edited by Enfild; Apr 4, 2020 @ 5:32pm
Ittrix Apr 4, 2020 @ 6:40pm 
Yeah, I found out radiant was the same. I am enjoying the mid-way difficulty since it's forcing me to try out different stuff all the time, unlike before.

I may start up the crimson court soon.
RopeDrink Apr 5, 2020 @ 7:17pm 
So, i would say do not activate Court from the start

It should be activated from the start as that is how it was designed. Like all zones, it starts at apprentice, and activating it immediately doesn't punish you in any way other than a minor stress-relief penalty if you delay the first mission. You can avoid the Court indefinitely, allowing you to collect blood before you ever need it, giving you all the time you need to set yourself up for an easy time (level 2's, level 4's, level 6's without worrying over blood).

You don't get invitations immediately because you don't need them. Your heroes can't be infected (nor can you loot invitations) until the infestation rises. Once infestation does rise, you can grab all the invitations you need from Heralds. By the time I'm ready to start the second mission (Veteran), I already have the 3 invitations I need to clear the entire DLC.

The people who find it difficult are often the type who activate the first mission way too early, resulting in less blood and being forced to kill a boss to wipe the curse when infection is becoming a problem for a lower level roster that isn't ready for it. If you're struggling for invitations, then you're rushing too hard.

Crimson Court is no different to any other part of the game > easy to manage with a little experience.

I recommend starting a whole new save after your first playthrough and activating all DLC. It's a nice way of getting more replay value and enjoying the DLC how it was meant to be played. Activating it later in a safe is a far more annoying approach, especially late-game saves, because most would have to sacrifice higher level heroes to make lower level teams to even do the missions. Late activation is an unnecessary delay.
Last edited by RopeDrink; Apr 5, 2020 @ 7:18pm
Zot Apr 5, 2020 @ 10:19pm 
I didn't really struggle with it, but ONLY because I had already beaten the game on my save. Yeah, as it turns out, having the best equipment going in helps.

I'd still reccomend a new save to get the real experience though, y'know.

One thing if it sounds too daunting, is consider mods. You know, lower CC chance, increase level caps, remove 'Town is Abuzz', and that stuff. Is it cheaty? Maybe. Will it make it less ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥? Yeah.
Enfild Apr 6, 2020 @ 6:07am 
Originally posted by RopeDrink:
It should be activated from the start as that is how it was designed.
I know. And i dont like that design one bit.
As much as i like base game, i really cannot say that i enjoy crimson court, so not having to deal with its ♥♥♥♥ for makes it at least tolerable experience. Again, it isnt hard, it just annoying.
To be honest, i dont think devs themselves know what to do with their own game, if they thought sleeper was good boss design. Whole-party attacks with stress and massive damage, yeah, ♥♥♥♥ that. And guardin? He is just tedious to fight against, even with shieldbreakers.

RopeDrink Apr 6, 2020 @ 11:41am 
You consider it annoying. I don't see it in any way annoying at all. You can forgo the quest until you feel you're ready, allowing time to generate blood and heroes of a sufficient level. Once unlocked and the infestation rises, you have all the time in the world to grab invitations. A good player only needs three (one for each boss), which is very easy to acquire.

The only annoying aspect is the Curse. That is the whole intent behind it and the driving force behind why you would even go to the Court in the first place.

It is a lovely expansion that adds more layers to the vanilla onion and isn't even remotely as difficult or annoying as some people imply. Just like everything else in Darkest Dungeon, a little knowledge and a plan is all you need.

It's just a shame when people choose to try and bypass the experience by activating it later in a save when it is best experienced from a fresh new run (which is also a nice way to enjoy it as replay value).

sleeper

This is a Colour of Madness mini-boss that has nothing to do with Crimson Court.

And guardin? He is just tedious to fight against, even with shieldbreakers.

Not if you give your team armor-piercing and/or stack some Shieldbreakers, and even then, there is a reason why it is the way it is. He is there to be fought for remaining CC trinkets, hence it's meant to be a bit of an effort (and not a very hard one at that, often in very small maps). Overall, it's a better-designed Pounder.
Last edited by RopeDrink; Apr 6, 2020 @ 11:44am
Enfild Apr 6, 2020 @ 3:17pm 
Originally posted by RopeDrink:
You consider it annoying. I don't see it in any way annoying at all
Well, i do not intend to say that you shouldn't like it. Good for you that you dont have much problem with DLC. I, on the other hand do, and just try to warn people about it.
It is ok DLC, but it has severe problems, that i can't ignore, for one, DLC introduces biggest dungeons in game, yet they do not deliver enough variety in enemies, so the whole ordeal was mindnumbingly boring for me because you fought same 2 teams over and over and over, and dungeon went on forever it seemed, but if you left it and went to do something else game timegates you for no apparent reason. I finished game 3 times, and never i was really bored by other dungeons, but in CC? It was nightmare.
Originally posted by RopeDrink:
It's just a shame when people choose to try and bypass the experience by activating it later in a save when it is best experienced from a fresh new run (which is also a nice way to enjoy it as replay value).
And yet if you do it from begining, you will either idnore it and will just play with constant debuff, for no reason, or go in and have to deal with crimson curse, which is not hard, but wasnt nearly fun.
Originally posted by RopeDrink:
This is a Colour of Madness mini-boss that has nothing to do with Crimson Court.
I know, i just brought up it an example of questionable decisionmaking on developers side
Originally posted by RopeDrink:
Not if you give your team armor-piercing and/or stack some Shieldbreakers, and even then, there is a reason why it is the way it is. He is there to be fought for remaining CC trinkets, hence it's meant to be a bit of an effort (and not a very hard one at that, often in very small maps). Overall, it's a better-designed Pounder.
I didnt said he was hard, but telling me he is somehow better than cannon? I cannot see how, it is literally nothing more than a damage sponge, you can not do anything to it, no dots, no debuffs, nothing, only strategy is to stack damage, and best class for that is, ironically, locked behind separate DLC. With pounder, at least you had people to stun/debuff/dot. It is by far, worst designed boss in the game.
Last edited by Enfild; Apr 6, 2020 @ 3:18pm
RopeDrink Apr 6, 2020 @ 4:27pm 
It is ok DLC, but it has severe problems

No, it doesn't.

DLC introduces biggest dungeons in game, yet they do not deliver enough variety in enemies

You mean the dungeons that you can leave at any time (and still maintain your progress) to do some other vanilla dungeon that also repeatedly uses the same enemies just like the Court? Each level of Court introduces other threats and it comes with three mini-bosses and three main bosses. It's not much different from re-running an actual Darkest Dungeon.

so the whole ordeal was mindnumbingly boring

Subjective. I find it a great break away from the norm.

but if you left it and went to do something else game timegates you for no apparent reason.

As said above, you can also re-enter at the exact same place you left, unlike any other dungeon in the game, which is why the mechanic exists in the first-place - to stop people cheesing it by leaving and re-entering with a fresh team every fight. You can farm invitations and, if you don't complete it, have maximum infestation (which practically pukes Heralds at you to make even more). Someone like me only needs three to beat the Court entirely, and I'd have them before even starting my first Veteran Court run.

dungeon went on forever it seemed

Without speed-mods, you can complete each large map in an hour or less from start-to-finish (yes, with all the super-slow text and slow combat).

And yet if you do it from begining, you will either idnore it and will just play with constant debuff, for no reason.

There are plenty of reasons, some of which were listed earlier. A minor stress-relief penalty is of no consequence when it cures most stress anyway and still serves it main function - wiping afflictions.

, or go in and have to deal with crimson curse, which is not hard, but wasnt nearly fun

Again, subjective. As annoying as the Curse is, the mechanic and setup add a lot more to an otherwise easy game with no pressure whatsoever unless you are playing on Stygian.

I know, i just brought up it an example of questionable decisionmaking on developers side

What questionable decision making? Phase 2 can be brutal, sure, but you seem to be calling it poor decision making purely because you don't like it rather than by actually looking at the whole package.

As the veritable 'end boss' of the expansion, I'd be surprised if it was a pushover like the actual end-boss of the entire game. You're also merely referring to it in phase 2. It's a pretty nice boss all things considered and, just like TTFTStars, has unique elements to it that separate it from all other bosses. The developers made an effort to give each and every boss its own unique aspect and different mechanics, Sleeper included. It can even be cheesed by blowing up the Crystal before it can transform if you are that way inclined... but because Phase 2 has AoE and Stress, you call out the Developers and say they don't even know their own game. That's a laughable claim when you look at the game as a whole.

I didnt said he was hard

And I didn't say you said he was hard. "He is there to be fought for remaining CC trinkets, hence it's meant to be a bit of an effort (and not a very hard one at that, often in very small maps)." -- my comment doesn't imply 'I said you said' anything. You're calling it tedious. I'm explaining why it's that way (trinket farming) and also pointing out that it's really not that bad despite that fact.

I cannot see how, it is literally nothing more than a damage sponge

Pounder is the biggest damage sponge of all. The difference between the two is that the Guardian uses a shield for this. You can break the guard and slap it for full damage, or fight it as intended - shield up (nuke), shield down (sustain). You can even break the shield for laughable results. Meanwhile, Pounder is just there to be a literal damage sponge that relies on trash to win the fight.

, you can not do anything to it, no dots, no debuffs, nothing, only strategy is to stack damage, and best class for that is, ironically, locked behind separate DLC.

Shieldbreaker is there to break its Guard, rendering it defenseless. For piercing, you have Graverobber as well. Ironically, the wiki suggests a comp that has neither. In short, you don't need Piercing OR Guard Break to casually beat the Guadian - it just saves you some time.

So, explain to me how a boss like Guardian pales in comparison to a Pounder fight? You know, the cannon that just sits there asking you to AoE bandits so that it can't do anything other than sit there being 'a big damage sponge that you can't DoT, Mark or Debuff'. The Guardian has much more going for it in almost every single way.
Last edited by RopeDrink; Apr 6, 2020 @ 4:38pm
Enfild Apr 6, 2020 @ 4:44pm 
Originally posted by RopeDrink:
It is ok DLC, but it has severe problems

No, it doesn't.
Great argument, i dont need to read any further.
V.V. Apr 6, 2020 @ 5:13pm 
I would avoid until you get the Sanguine Vintners built. Manually farming blood is alright too, it's just nice to have a steady supply being made weekly. Also, when you beat your first Court dungeon, bloodsuckers will start gradually spawning everywhere (in other dungeons outside the Court) with more frequency as time goes on. So, you'll likely start getting a bunch of infected people you'll have to manage with blood, and also the occasional run-in with the Fanatic if you choose to take a bunch of infected into a normal dungeon.

I doubt you'll have to start over... at least I've never had to. Infected are easily managed as long as you have enough blood in stock for everyone at the Hamlet and in your party.
Ittrix Apr 6, 2020 @ 6:44pm 
You mean the dungeons that you can leave at any time (and still maintain your progress) to do some other vanilla dungeon that also repeatedly uses the same enemies just like the Court?
Oh hey I'd read about this but I had a question. Does this incur the normal stress penalty, or can I just bail at literally any time with no problems because they expect it to take awhile?
Enfild Apr 6, 2020 @ 7:34pm 
Originally posted by Ittrix:
You mean the dungeons that you can leave at any time (and still maintain your progress) to do some other vanilla dungeon that also repeatedly uses the same enemies just like the Court?
Oh hey I'd read about this but I had a question. Does this incur the normal stress penalty, or can I just bail at literally any time with no problems because they expect it to take awhile?
There are no penalty, and you return to the same place. Also these dungeons are not randomly generated.
ZarahNeander Apr 6, 2020 @ 7:47pm 
Originally posted by Enfild:
..... DLC introduces biggest dungeons in game..

After 2 vanilla runs, I decided, CC is the most advanced "press d to move on" simulator atm on the market. And the whole "you found the red key, now walk all the way back to the green key and then again to the other end for the yellow key and then....".....*yawn*

Different strokes and such, but CC without a 'move faster' mod...

After this mini-rant, RopeDrink's advice is sound, just dont rush into the dlc the moment it unlocks
dem22 Apr 6, 2020 @ 8:36pm 
the middle of Second play through!
RopeDrink Apr 7, 2020 @ 7:52am 
Great argument, i dont need to read any further.

This is of no consequence as you obviously have no argument, plus you've already proven to skip or misread posts, and the person who is trying to benefit from the conversation is neither you nor me, it's the OP.

The Guardian vs Pounder mentality spoke for itself and paints a very good picture as to why your posts shouldn't be taken on board by anyone trying to get an actual picture about CC or how it works as a first time player/buyer. You seem incapable of looking outside of the box and all I've seen is "I dun liek it" spliced with some childishness.

I would avoid until you get the Sanguine Vintners built.

You can do this, but it's a completely unnecessary luxury. I never have and never will build a Vintner as a bit of experience and planning remedies all the complaints people have, such as lack of blood, which stems from the rate heroes are infected (mostly from starting way too early and getting an infected roster before the player is in a good position to dunk the Boss dungeon).

Furthermore, it becomes absolutely obsolete later unless you are one of those crazy people who think being Cursed is a buff (ie. getting yourself infected when the whole Court has been defeated). It's a dead investment overall if you know how to plan for it - but for someone trying to get to grips with the DLC, it's not so bad.

If you want to dunk CC without those concerns, there's a very simple method of achieving this without any districts or external factors, and yet people will claim CC is too hard or unbalanced. Well, that's no different to some reviews about the base game. Some people just don't seem to want to learn the good old fashioned way.
Last edited by RopeDrink; Apr 7, 2020 @ 8:11am
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Date Posted: Apr 4, 2020 @ 4:25pm
Posts: 16