This game is abuse

[Karl Power]

This is the single worst game i have ever played. The concept as a hero-managing RPG/Strategy hybrid is brilliantly innovative, the tactical system is deep, the background story is well thought out, the artwork is really unique and gloomy, the sound is nice, but the RNG involved and the difficulty level is absolutely ridiculous. I have probably spent about two hours reading guides and watching how-to videos, I have installed mods that reduce the difficulty, and I have given the game several hours and two attempted playthroughs, but this is an absolute nightmare. My first playthrough was effectively ended by my experienced main party missing 4 attacks in a row on an enemy that had low dodge and stun resistance, and kept piling on the stress damage in absolute ridiculous amounts. On my second playthrough I met an apparently randomly appearing boss enemy named The Collector on my 3rd mission, and this is absolute abuse. If this game was created to anger and frustrate its players, this is definitely what it achieves.

I absolutely hate this game, I despise its creators, and I deeply regret I spent money and lifetime on it.

[Zoltan32]

This game is just extremely grindy and RNG based, it's not even hard once you know which party composition are "OP" for each dungeon/boss

Get some mods that reduce costs across the board and buff the stagecoach so you get higher level heroes faster

[Kensei]

Publicado originalmente por Zoltan:

This game is just extremely grindy and RNG based, it's not even hard once you know which party composition are "OP" for each dungeon/boss

Get some mods that reduce costs across the board and buff the stagecoach so you get higher level heroes faster

It's not RNG based, unless you choose to run dodge only, no hp characters and take Occ as your only heal. Then it's you making it RNG based.

[Anviniel]

Details such as the one mentioned by Disthron make me wonder if this game is difficult on the blunt side. I mean, like if you were playing D&D with 1st level Pcs and the DM throws a Golden Dragon against you. It obviously is "difficult" and you're expected to be screwed.

Add to that: every game out there cheats while rolling. Every single of them. Wouldn't be difficult if they didn't. But some simply go far beyond expected cheating and pound you with surprisingly good and constant enemy attack/defense rolls that ♥♥♥♥ on statistics, even for a RNG, which limitations we already are aware of. Heck, of course it's difficult that way.

Not played it, was considering the purchase, but don't think it's for me. Cheers.

[Dr. Uncredible]

"Add to that: every game out there cheats while rolling. Every single of them. Wouldn't be difficult if they didn't. But some simply go far beyond expected cheating and pound you with surprisingly good and constant enemy attack/defense rolls that ♥♥♥♥ on statistics, even for a RNG, which limitations we already are aware of. Heck, of course it's difficult that way."
---

Now this is just blatantly untrue.
Games do not always tell you the odds, but why would they need to "cheat"?

Sure it´ll feel like it does when you get three hits in a row and miss all four of your attacks, but given the number of dicerolls that take place during a campaign the odds of that happening are quite likely, it´s balanced out by the times the same happens to you.
But of course, those times are a lot easier to forget, in fact it´ll probably be misattributed to ones own skill.

If DD had programmed in "cheats" to screw the party over, what would govern those, what would determine when the computer decides to ruin a run?

[tonechild]

Publicado originalmente por Dr. Uncredible:

"Add to that: every game out there cheats while rolling. Every single of them. Wouldn't be difficult if they didn't. But some simply go far beyond expected cheating and pound you with surprisingly good and constant enemy attack/defense rolls that ♥♥♥♥ on statistics, even for a RNG, which limitations we already are aware of. Heck, of course it's difficult that way."
---

Now this is just blatantly untrue.

Yes, indeed. Humans are quite bad at understanding probability(it is actually counter intuitive), so much that, games actually "cheat" in the reverse direction (in the players' favor) - there's plenty of articles on this matter, lots of resources circulating the game development education corners of the web that point to this very common misnomer.

Look at this great video which explains this phenomena here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwI5b-wRLic&t=1040s

[No One]

DD absolutely cheats the rolls in your favour.

[Anviniel]

Publicado originalmente por Dr. Uncredible:

Now this is just blatantly untrue.
Games do not always tell you the odds, but why would they need to "cheat"?...

Well… to provide more challenge against a human mind, which an AI alone cannot. Been there since the beginning, why the surprise.

Publicado originalmente por Dr. Uncredible:

If DD had programmed in "cheats" to screw the party over, what would govern those, what would determine when the computer decides to ruin a run?

Apart from the simplicity of throwing against you an enemy which is mathematically impossible to beat without losing half of your party or more, and if lucky... For example: just as the AI is easily able to identify which PC is the most dangerous for it, checking his attributes and those of the monsters… it can also do so to focus attack on that PC and "casually" getting two consecutive criticals. Is that so hard to come up with?

Cheers again.

[Anviniel]

Publicado originalmente por cthulchu:

Wow, ma dude! you should really grow up just a little bit. This game is not quite for kids.

It's an acquired taste to play more complex games.

Firstly, that is so condescending, is more childish than anyone you could address.

And second, highly doubt this can be considered "complex". Wargames in the likes of Harpoon or TOAW may be, but for sure not this.

Publicado originalmente por cthulchu:

Have you read it? You will lose heroes. It's meant to be this way.

The thing is... how? Because simply throwing at you an enemy with impossibly bloated stats is easy, just as poor would be the game's design. That's the point.

[No One]

Unfortunately, with sufficient practice, victory is guaranteed in Darkest Dungeon.

I wanted to play a risk management game, but DD is a risk elimination game. Regular players (not speedrunners or similar crazies) can achieve zero-death runs. Probably not worth the effort, but the mere fact it's possible is a disappointment for me.

[Dr. Uncredible]

Publicado originalmente por Anviniel:

Publicado originalmente por Dr. Uncredible:

Now this is just blatantly untrue.
Games do not always tell you the odds, but why would they need to "cheat"?...

Well… to provide more challenge against a human mind, which an AI alone cannot. Been there since the beginning, why the surprise.

Publicado originalmente por Dr. Uncredible:

If DD had programmed in "cheats" to screw the party over, what would govern those, what would determine when the computer decides to ruin a run?

Apart from the simplicity of throwing against you an enemy which is mathematically impossible to beat without losing half of your party or more, and if lucky... For example: just as the AI is easily able to identify which PC is the most dangerous for it, checking his attributes and those of the monsters… it can also do so to focus attack on that PC and "casually" getting two consecutive criticals. Is that so hard to come up with?

Cheers again.

The first bit, again, not true, just gotten past the Crimson Court on regular Darkest difficulty, not a single characters lost in the court or on it´s bosses, sure I have lost a handful of characters previously in the campaign, but never due to "mathematically impossible odds".
And I´m not even one of the most knowledgeable forum-members.

And now the AI -will- more frequently target characters with low health/high stress, but this is not cheating with the dice-rolls, this is just the computer pretending to play intelligently, it is up to you to protect these people using the tools available to you.

But how is a character taking two consecutive crits "cheating"?
The odds aren´t even that low.

I remember times in this campaign where against one or two bosses my characters were just constantly landing crits against it, was that me cheating?
Or is it brilliant strategy when it happens to a player?

[RopeDrink]

Not played it, was considering the purchase, but don't think it's for me. Cheers.

Failing to see what inspired this judgement.

The only people who are at the mercy of 'abuse' are those who choose not to eliminate risk and/or those who didn't know there was a risk to eliminate or how to do so, as you would expect. It is why there is a hugely noticeable line between the 'this game is abuse' people and the 'this game is too easy' people. The middle-ground (if any) is microscopic-to-non-existent.

Why? Because DD is not inherently difficult. It's a snooze to those who know how the meat-grinder works, and a demonic bag of EVUL ARE EN GEE to those walking in blind, as you would expect when inexperienced in the face of a so-called 'punishing game'. However, if it was 'pure RNG' to the level people describe, it would still throw veterans for a loop - but it can't because there is very little difficulty/RNG out of your actual control. The so-called 'cheats' (hidden rolls) aren't out to destroy you. If anything, they're there to give the AI a chance because the odds are not in its favor. The AI relies on the player to dig their own grave for the most part, and this is infinitely easier to do when you're not sure what to expect.

DD has a steep knowledge (not skill) curve, and as No One said, it's a risk elimination game.
Once you know how to eliminate the risks (or at least understand the risks if you're not going to bother reducing them), then you've pretty much already won because there's an answer to almost everything. It gets to a point where most players eventually have to make a conscious effort to actually fail, but of course, this requires people to learn the game (or at least try to).

[rompier02]

If DD had programmed in "cheats" to screw the party over, what would govern those, what would determine when the computer decides to ruin a run? [/quote]

Not what but who.

[Grand Councilor Varmon]

Publicado originalmente por Karl Power:

Look I appreciate all of you trying to give advice on a game that you like. It's just not for me. On my 2nd playthrough everything went fine and I knew how to use heals, stuns, marks, bleed and blight damage, + vs unholy etc. However when you meet a random boss in your 3rd (!!!) mission who regenerates as much damage each round as you can dish out and whose spawns totally wreck my back line in 2 turns, something is just not right. This game isn't for me, I don't want to take your enjoyment out of it, but I absolutely hate it.

you can retreat from fights you cannot hope to win.

darkest dungeon is not only about using good strategy to win, but knowing when to cut your losses.

[tonechild]

Publicado originalmente por No One:

Unfortunately, with sufficient practice, victory is guaranteed in Darkest Dungeon.

I wanted to play a risk management game, but DD is a risk elimination game. Regular players (not speedrunners or similar crazies) can achieve zero-death runs. Probably not worth the effort, but the mere fact it's possible is a disappointment for me.

100% this.

I'm still failing to understand the main complaint about the game being too hard.

The game is only hard if you do not understand how to play it. If one understands the mechanics of the game, and has knowledge of how to take advantage of all the mechanics, and understands party composition, the game becomes BORING. There are plenty of harder games than this, in fact, I would never consider this game even hard really. There are plenty of much more challenging titles out there.

I mean, I don't even care if I lose a hero, I can just get another: I get FREE heroes every week. So these heroes are 100% expendable.

My biggest gripe with this game, is that it is nothing more than a knowledge game. Learn how all of the mechanics work and you will have perfect runs. The depth of strategy and tactics is quite shallow: Just bring in the right composition, and select the right moves, and you will win every time.

One thing I love about another game: Slay the spire, is that it toys with human motivations (such as greed), and can cause you to lose so much if you get too greedy. I wish this game did something like that: where even after you master the mechanics, you still can fail if you get outpsyched by your own greed or overconfidence.

This game, just conditions you to stall it and go through the most boring grind possible. I hope DD2 will solve the problem of getting too grindy and boring.

For now, the mods that are out REALLY help.

For those complaining about RNG and saying the game is too hard - every argument I've read has either been completely false, exagerated, or rooted in misunderstanding of game mechanics. That doesn't mean they should just "git gud", I also am not advocating they stay and play a game they don't enjoy. I'm only saying that if they are saying they are not playing the game because it has too much RNG, they're only lying to themselves and that's where my frustration comes: as I hate to see a fellow human lie to themselves, do we not want to have a better understanding of our failings or do we just want to think we are blameless, and blame the challenge/video game? To me, the former is much more rewarding.

[Karl Power]

Note that there is a marked difference in saying the game is hard/difficult and saying it is TOO hard.

Large parts of this thread are a discussion between people who say this game is not difficult (!) vs. people who say it is.