Is there ever a reason to NOT bring torches?

[RikaFriedRice]

Without spoiling it for me, of course.

[Thaxlsyssilyaan]

You get better loot the more dark it is. Just put your cursor on the torch icon on upper part of the screen to see the various effects.

[Ghaleon]

Earlier on during early access, half the threads were populated by people saying they never brought a torch ever. I doubted them but maybe they were telling the truth. No idea if my doubts were accurate or not.

I think some did during suicide runs to make gold with intentional fodder then fire them after if they survived, which may still be a legit strategy. But somehow that feels like cheating to me so I never did it.

Seriously though. I'd never not bring torches to a run I had a serious interest in succeeding in. Nor have I ever, and while I may not be the best at this game, that was my biggest gripe, and the thing that made me quit several times until new updates. Was succeeding too often that my cast became too leveled up to complete the lower level expeditions and running out of lowbies to finish all the lowbie bosses and then not wanting to retire perfectly good heroes and and... argh. It's like the game rewards you for screwing up earlier on... or for 'cheating' (sending sacrificial lambs with no intent on keeping them).

[Sanvs]

I am gearing specifically for pitch black runs, saves inventory slots, gives better loot, if you are going to get randomly critted by enemy you are going to anyways, 100 light level or not

[Xoelaras likes Jagged Crowns]

As said, It's basically a difficulty and loot quality slider.

Stress gained, enemy difficulty, chance to dodge attacks, enemies surprised or player team surprised and quality of loot scale based on how much light there is large things may also shamble around in total darkness

[Perquisitore]

More loot. And if you bring new recruitments and you go without food either you will always win-win even if they forfeit.
Later on you can bring your usual soldiers with food and all, but at first if you're low on money that works.

[Guts]

To save money and inventory space. I have a party that doesn't need food or torches and leaves the dungeon with 0 stress and full health. Vestal, Bounty Hunter, Crusader, Man at Arms. With that combo, I can drag out a fight with a weak enemy for quite a few turns while the crusader stress heals and the vestal heals the party.

[anachoret]

Originally posted by Sanvs Ga(L)(L)vs:

if you are going to get randomly critted by enemy you are going to anyways, 100 light level or not

Without factoring in individual trinkets with effects conditional on particular light level ranges...

You are more likely to be hit by enemies at lower light levels. You are more likely to be crit by those hits by enemies at lower light levels. The average damage done by enemies, and thus the amount of damage done by their crits, is higher at lower light levels. The average stress damage done by those on-average-larger, more frequent crits is increased at lower light levels.

[Basilisk]

Yes torches are indeed very useful, even if you intent to do Dark runs. Since I don't want to spoil you I will just say this: There is a special curio that can appear in most dungeons that requires a torch to activate and will grant you great loot that can only be found in this curio.
Torches increase scouting chance and scouting in itself is super strong. Free stress relief from disarming traps, better planning by knowing which way has fights and which way has curios, cannot get surprised by scouted fights. So even if you are doing dark runs, just use the torch before you enter a room to increase scouting chance.

[Sanvs]

Originally posted by anachoret:

Originally posted by Sanvs Ga(L)(L)vs:

if you are going to get randomly critted by enemy you are going to anyways, 100 light level or not

Without factoring in individual trinkets with effects conditional on particular light level ranges...

You are more likely to be hit by enemies at lower light levels. You are more likely to be crit by those hits by enemies at lower light levels. The average damage done by enemies, and thus the amount of damage done by their crits, is higher at lower light levels. The average stress damage done by those on-average-larger, more frequent crits is increased at lower light levels.

I know, it was semi-ironic, but that being said, random crit sequence CAN and WILL destroy most runs, low light increases odds and damage, but ♥♥♥♥ can happen at 100% light too. You can't play around RNG forever.

[anachoret]

Originally posted by Sanvs Ga(L)(L)vs:

I know, it was semi-ironic, but that being said, random crit sequence CAN and WILL destroy most runs, low light increases odds and damage, but ♥♥♥♥ can happen at 100% light too. You can't play around RNG forever.

Ah, yes. It's like if you're a hero in a party in a dungeon, you could still die either way, so F it. Nothing I do matters! There's still a non-zero chance I get one-shot, no matter what! If you're a hero manager in charge of an estate, you may notice longer term trends. Intuitive grasping of probability is an interesting cognitive hurdle, and may have something to do with some people's reactions to Darkest Dungeon.

Propaganda scrawled around the Estate would read like, "Come back alive! Always Bring a Torch!" (but seriously though, always bring a shovel). It's not strictly true, but on average, your average expedition has a better chance.

[No One]

Originally posted by Ghaleon:

Earlier on during early access, half the threads were populated by people saying they never brought a torch ever.

Corpses didn't exist, monster prot didn't exist, monster HP was lower, damage mods were additive like trinket mods not multiplicative, and you could bring/eat endless food. Result: best team was four hellions. Just break through everything in a round or two. Oh and breakthrough didn't have forward 1 so your row 4 hellion could hang out in row 4 using breakthrough.

[anachoret]

Originally posted by No One:

Just break through everything in a round or two. Oh and breakthrough didn't have forward 1 so your row 4 hellion could hang out in row 4 using breakthrough.

Did Breakthrough have the debuff back then either? I can't remember.

edit: Yep, no self-debuff back then either.

[VerminatorX]

Challenge and more loot. But you get enough loot anyway, so unless you want a challenge, its not worth risk.

[Ghaleon]

Yeah I remember the 4 hellion run, no it didn't give a debuff, which is why it was so op.
That said I don't recall enemies having lower health, and I recall trinkets being useless. like. they were all something like +3% damage, +25% stress. +2 spd, -30 dodge. +5hp, -30% damage. Seriously. Not to mention they were just rare as fuu to begin with. I seem to recall only getting like 2 after 10 successful runs.

There was also the 4 graverobber lunge party which got nerfed.

Still though, I got the impression these never torch people weren't using broken parties. I mean how fun can the game be using nothing but one move and 1 class for every dungeon? Why bother playing? I mean hell even a damn phone game is more complex than that.

[No One]

It would have been OP even with the debuff and movement, because with four hellions the movement doesn't matter and if they all die in two turns the damage loss doesn't matter.

Legendary bracer existed and as I recall it had like -dodge or something instead of -speed.

Hellions were the best party, but anything that could AOE could happily grind through the first 2-3 ranks on the first turn, often reducing the rearguard to using their backup abilities on turn 2.

After prot swinetaurs have 153 HP. Before they had 123, and no prot. Fungal gropers, I recall, had the exact same HP and no prot. Stuff that didn't get prot got more raw HP during this pass.