Abomination combo?

[Josetrujillo_43]

Someone knows a combo with them? i find them quite useless for the ton of stress it gives

[RopeDrink]

If that is the case, get out of the habit of transforming every fight. Aboms are primarily used to stun targets (normal form), with transform being an option for on-demand burst/damage during 'oh noes' moments, not all the time. In short, if you're getting 'tonnes of stress', you're overusing it.

It obviously can't pair with religious characters, so you'd likely run self-sustained comps that can compliment its stun power and/or look after itself without relying on, say, unreliable Occultist heals. Hound Masters (stuns/stress/self-heal), Hellions, (front-line stuns / backrank burst), Bounter Hunters (Flashbang // Finish Them), Occultist (stunner and/or healer), Arbalest (back-rank nuker), Jester (stress), Plague Doc (stuns) etc. You can even roll with multiple Abominations.

The only real downside to them is inability to be paired with a Vestal, but that doesn't mean there aren't an infinite number of potential comps.

The -transform stress trinket is a help, as is anti-stress trinkets/buffs for himself or other party members, though this can be overkill. Provided you aren't transorming unecessarily, you should have no problems.

[Skinny Pete]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

The only real downside to them is inability to be paired with a Vestal, but that doesn't mean there aren't an infinite number of potential comps.

It isn't a huge downside not to be paired with Crusaders, since there are other damage dealers and Crusaders are nearly useless (also Abom can be a damage dealer too), but it's at least something of a downside not to be able to be paired with a Flagellant, although arguably that combo would be ridiculously OP.

[Josetrujillo_43]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

If that is the case, get out of the habit of transforming every fight. Aboms are primarily used to stun targets (normal form), with transform being an option for on-demand burst/damage during 'oh noes' moments, not all the time. In short, if you're getting 'tonnes of stress', you're overusing it.

It obviously can't pair with religious characters, so you'd likely run self-sustained comps that can compliment its stun power and/or look after itself without relying on, say, unreliable Occultist heals. Hound Masters (stuns/stress/self-heal), Hellions, (front-line stuns / backrank burst), Bounter Hunters (Flashbang // Finish Them), Occultist (stunner and/or healer), Arbalest (back-rank nuker), Jester (stress), Plague Doc (stuns) etc. You can even roll with multiple Abominations.

The only real downside to them is inability to be paired with a Vestal, but that doesn't mean there aren't an infinite number of potential comps.

The -transform stress trinket is a help, as is anti-stress trinkets/buffs for himself or other party members, though this can be overkill. Provided you aren't transorming unecessarily, you should have no problems.

I havent use it yet, since i have read the abilities which gives if i dont remember bad all +20 stress on transform and each attack trasnformed more stress to the party, so that's why i find it useless, since my perfect combo its (Back to front) Ocultist, highwayman, the hook guy which i dont remember his name and the hellion or if im leveled the hellion, the leper

[Josetrujillo_43]

Originally posted by Skinny Pete:

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

The only real downside to them is inability to be paired with a Vestal, but that doesn't mean there aren't an infinite number of potential comps.

It isn't a huge downside not to be paired with Crusaders, since there are other damage dealers and Crusaders are nearly useless (also Abom can be a damage dealer too), but it's at least something of a downside not to be able to be paired with a Flagellant, although arguably that combo would be ridiculously OP.

Ocultist master race :^)

[RopeDrink]

Originally posted by Skinny Pete:

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

The only real downside to them is inability to be paired with a Vestal, but that doesn't mean there aren't an infinite number of potential comps.

It isn't a huge downside not to be paired with Crusaders, since there are other damage dealers and Crusaders are nearly useless (also Abom can be a damage dealer too), but it's at least something of a downside not to be able to be paired with a Flagellant, although arguably that combo would be ridiculously OP.

You are claiming that a self-stress & party-stress inducing hero doesn't 'lose out' by being unable to join one of only 3.5 stress-healers in the game (who can ALSO compliment the Abominations role as a stunner, can remedy Abom's lack of Rank 4 damage, and has no positional requirement to fulfil a stress role). Nonsensical.

JES & HM have positional stress-heals - a Crusader doesn't. HM may sound like a great option for Abom stress-healing on paper (due to being AoE), but it is also unreliable. A Crusader's isn't. As a stunner, Abom seeks to be in R2 or R3, so with a Jes or HM acting as an answer to stress in an Abom comp, that Abom is mostly restricted solely to R2 (seeing as HM/JES require R3-4 to heal). A CRU would be a good option for R1 and wouldn't give a damn if it was shuffled or where the Abom is currently positioned. This would leave Abom free to be wherever you want, stunning R2-R3 while your CRU assists with R1-R2. Failing that, you could play him at the back as a Lancer, seeing as an Abomination has no answer for Rank 4.

Don't confuse Crusader for Leper - Crusaders are actually useful in this game and would actually pair pretty well with Abominations. Some might say they'd be much better with an Abom compared to a Flagellant, which has no stuns, has a stress-inducing stress-heal, and even less Rank 4 projection. Oh they'd self-sustain all day, but would probably need to due to having less options for Rank 4.

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that's why i find it useless

I havent use it yet

Don't rely on theories. This is a game where you take four heroes together. Just looking at an individual character on a page by itself doesn't tell you much of anything about how good/bad/useful they are outside of a very few specific factors. The abomination is a very strong character - again, its only drawback being the inability to pair with the most consistent Healer in the game. Don't take that as a knock against the Occultist - that's a hella-strong class - but it remains one of the top reasons why people avoid Abominations, seeing as he is 100% guaranteed to be present in groups where consistent healing (for those who may need it) will be limited.

Abomination himself doesn't care, given he can self-heal and self-stress heal from any position with a very strong ability - but not every character/comp has this luxury, nor want to rely on a damage-dealer sacrificing turns to self-manage themselves unless the fight has already been won.

[Skinny Pete]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

You are claiming that a self-stress & party-stress inducing hero doesn't 'lose out' by being unable to join one of only 3.5 stress-healers in the game (who can ALSO compliment the Abominations role as a stunner, can remedy Abom's lack of Rank 4 damage, and has no positional requirement to fulfil a stress role). Nonsensical.

I didn't say he's absolutely useless like the Leper, but of the three pairings you can't have with Abomination, he's the one I really couldn't care less about.

[RopeDrink]

There are four religious characters, not three, and Crusader is the second best option to pair with an Abomination as far as those four options go. He has everything you need to compliment an Abomination in combat (outside of the healing role, even though he can be used that way).

EDIT:

Abomination > Vestal, speaks for itself.
Abomination > Crusader, stun, stress-healing, projection option.
Abomination > Leper, limited projection, stunless, sustain-comp.
Abomination > Flagellant, limited projection, stunless, sustain-comp, stress-inducing stress-heal.

None of the above use blights, thus can't really compliment Abom as a dotter unless you don't mind using two different DoT types (flagellant).

[Skinny Pete]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

There are four religious characters, not three, and Crusader is the second best option to pair with an Abomination as far as religious characters go. He has everything you need to compliment an Abomination in combat (outside of the healing role, even though he could even technically be used that way).

You're counting a Leper as even being a character.

Originally posted by Josetrujillo_43:

Ocultist master race :^)

Just wiped out the Alluring Siren with a Shieldbreaker/Occultist/Antiquarian/Vestal combo. The idea was have the super low debuff resistance and mostly harmless character get turned all the time and load up SB with a bunch of damage trinkets and buffs during camp. It didn't work as well as I thought but it worked well enough that nobody died. The Occultist was in first position a good chunk of the time because of SB dancing around. He did surprisingly well.

(I wouldn't recommend it though.)

[Jesterofgames7712]

Originally posted by Skinny Pete:

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

There are four religious characters, not three, and Crusader is the second best option to pair with an Abomination as far as religious characters go. He has everything you need to compliment an Abomination in combat (outside of the healing role, even though he could even technically be used that way).

You're counting a Leper as even being a character.

Because he is a character
Even if he's very bad He's still a character and when he shines he shines Especially since with enough prep he can oneshot the final boss (and he can arguably be good for taking down the pew's for the mad prophet if you want that money and decide to take him I wouldn't personally i'd take the man at arms Because protect+attack debuff = managable damage from the prophet but it's still an optoin)

[RopeDrink]

You're counting a Leper as even being a character.

I'm fully aware of his issues, but that doesn't mean I don't like (or refuse to use) mah Lepers. Even I don't call him totally useless, but I do recognize him as the class with the most problems as far as DD is concerned. Regardless, doesn't change what was said - a Crusader, as far as the 'religious' roster goes, would be the second-best option to pair with an Abomination.

If Abom is acting as a stunner, then you would prefer back-rank projection while he handles the front. Vestal and Crusader can contribute to this, as well as stuns and reliable heals/stress-heals, whereas a Flag/Leper are far more restrictive and provide less gains.

[Butt Goblin]

Honestly, the only religious class he can't pair with that I don't see as being a huge loss is Vestal. Vestal likes parties where she can spend all her time healing, since her other skills are very bad if you don't spend both trinket slots optimizing specifically for them or get ludicrously lucky with ACC quirks; that doesn't mix well with a hero who has a very strong self-heal. He's already predisposed towards Occultist parties (wherein Occultist would really rather have backup heals in case his own heals decide to suck) or off-healer parties. All the other religious heroes fit very well into off-healer parties or occultist parties (even if Leper is debatably useful in general) in contrast as they all have decent off-heals or self-heals, with Crusader having a nice stress heal as well.

Lack of a Vestal means he's hard to use for newbies, but in theory I do not see him being optimal when combined with a Vestal.

As Ropedrink has said, you want to run him with strong stunners and strong off-healers (possibly including an Occultist). This allows you to get a very large amount of damage compared to dedicated healer parties (since all 4 slots can potentially be high-damage heroes) while still having respectable healing. Stress healers are also quite good if you want to spend a lot of time in beast form and both of the ones that can be used with Abom synergize fairly well. Houndmaster has good damage if combined with Occultist, has a self-heal, and has a stress heal designed to target the spread-out stress that Abomination inflicts. Since he will primarily be stunning in human form, he also synergizes well with Jester and other DoT-users as he can keep enemies stunned while they slowly die.

Trinket-wise, he should get the usual that other stunner/damage heroes get: damage, ACC, and stun chance.

[RopeDrink]

I don't agree with the whole 'wants to be healing all the time' angle - not when she can casually attack any rank with judgements and assist with sniping. Even a speed-chalice +heal Vestal can one-shot various stress-nukers later in the game without any damage modifiers if lucky. Having a Healer do this to, say, a Bone Courtier in Rank 4 is not to be sniffed at. As much as I mention her having a stun, it is often done so just to say she has that option, not to say that it is very good. Judgement is what you really want to be using as much as possible. Healing is the 'if you need it, do it' option.

Abomination has no answer for Rank 4 at all, so both a Vestal and/or Crusader can actually help there. Of course, something else can do it better, but my posts were specifically designed to counter Pete's claim that "Crusaders are nearly useless", which is ironic given a Crusader is an example of a class that can fill said Abominations own playstyle gaps in various ways.

Crusader isn't in a great place overall, but again, as far as religious characters go, no matter how highly or lowly you rate the pairing in general, he's the second best 'religious' option outside of a Vestal when it comes to Abom compositions. You could very easily make a lance/stress Crusader, or front-line stun assistant, seeing as he can stress heal no matter where he is - and both positions leave R2 & R3 free for the Abom to do his thing without hiderance.

As for the non-religious angle, anything that can help bypass limited 'consistent' healing and compliment Aboms stuns is a good option. You'd typically always roll with an Occultist for any situation that you know will definitely require healing, and have a wealth of stun-heavy options for front-or back, and/or stress-healing if transformations are causing you trouble.

[Butt Goblin]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

On the contrary, Vestal Judgement is pretty damn strong. As much as I mention her having a stun, it is often done so just to say she has that option, not to say that it is very good. Abomination has no answer for Rank 4 at all, so both a Vestal and/or Crusader can actually help there. Of course, something else can do it better, but my posts were specifically designed to counter Pete's claim that "Crusaders are nearly useless", which is ironic given a Crusader is an example of a class that can fill said Abominations own playstyle gaps in various ways.

Crusader isn't in a great place overall, but again, as far as religious characters go, no matter how highly or lowly you rate the pairing in general, he's the second best option outside of a Vestal in that regard (in terms of Abom compositions). You could very easily make a lance/stress Crusader work with an Abom, or compliment it as a front-line stun assistant seeing as he can stress heal no matter where he is.

Judgement is very strong... when it hits. With Vestal's bad base ACC, it'll have a hard time doing much of anything reliably. Although it's pretty fitting that you have to pray for it to hit, you have to sacrifice her healing for it if you want to use it reliably--which I suppose isn't too bad if you have Abomination and other off-healers. If you wanted someone who could heal and stun in the back ranks, you could give her Sun Ring + Stun Amulet and she might be optimal, but if I'm just looking for someone who can deal with position 4 I'm much more inclined to take an Arbalest than I am to take a Vestal with a Sun Ring and a healing trinket.

Definitely agree in terms of Crusader. It might be hard to get him in a position to use reliably use Holy Lance without using Slam to dance in the mid-ranks (since Slam is pretty bad compared to Rage and Rake) but he's a decent way of getting extra off-healing and stress-healing on a team that needs a lot of off-healing and stress-healing. Even if you just run him as a stunbot or just have him use Holy Lance on the first turn and have the other two heroes deal with rank 4 he'd be pretty good alongside Abom.

In a general sense, Crusader is amazing if you have someone for him to dance with in the mid-ranks for Holy Lance spam, since nobody else has that much backrow raw damage, stress healing, and off-healing in one package. Crusader + MaA midlines tend to result in remarkably tanky parties with a lot of backrow damage. But that's getting a little off-topic.

[RopeDrink]

I'll be honest, judgement (for me) hits very often, and I rarely consider ACC trinkets on her except stray items like the Prophet's Eyeball (or whatever the +Speed/ACC Rank 4 trinket is). Thing is, if you're in a position to use Judgement, then you already don't need to heal, so there's no real loss.

I tend to roll with the SPD Chalice (+8 on first round) and a healing item mid-game. Due to this, not only does she often go first (which is often a case where healing isn't needed), she can soften up a priority target to make a damage dealer have a better guarantee (if she doesn't just flat-out kill the target, which isn't uncommon - after all, +Undead damage on a crit Rank 4 Judgement vs a Courtier can be a god-send as an opening move). On top of that, she'll also get to a speed-value more in-line with the rest of the team to ensure she doesn't get left behind when someone else is in a really bad way. Again, healing is what you do when you need it - otherwise, you're a back-rank sniper. Priorities dead? Cool, top people up while handling the remaining 1-2 enemies.

As for Crusader, exactly. Bad place right now? Yes. Useless? Not by a long shot - and no, we're not talking about the good ole Deus Vult meme, even if the fact that four Crusaders being a workable team does say a little something.

If the new DLC does indeed remove the religious restriction (as has been hinted at in the past), then I'd see absolutely no issue with rolling out a Crusader with an Abomination at all.

[Butt Goblin]

Originally posted by RopeDrink:

I'll be honest, judgement (for me) hits very often, and I rarely consider ACC trinkets on her except stray items like the Prophet's Eyeball (or whatever the +Speed/ACC Rank 4 trinket is). Thing is, if you're in a position to use Judgement, then you already don't need to heal, so there's no real loss.

Prophet's Eye gives +15 ACC so that fixes her ACC issues quite neatly if you use it often. The base damage of Judgement isn't too impressive, but as you say it softens enemies up effectively since most heroes can't reliably oneshot things on Champion. I can see how your setup would help with that. I haven't seen her oneshot enemies without damage boosts, though, even against Undead; Judgement doesn't get bonus damage against undead for some reason.

You use Judgement when you don't need to heal, yes, but you're typically bringing a Vestal mostly for healing and bringing an ACC trinket instead of a healing trinket can make her worse at healing when you actually do need it. You might not need ACC on Veteran dungeons, but she has five less ACC than the average hero (or five more than the Leper) and it shows if you don't have ACC quirks. That said if you still have one trinket healing trinket I doubt it would matter as long as you focus a little more on stunning on your other heroes, and even if you spend two trinket slots on non-healing items you can just treat her as a good off-healer.

With that said, if she were able to be partied with Abomination I would still prefer Occultist as a lot of heroes that synergize with Abom also work well with Occultist. While some of those also have potential synergy with Vestal (e.g. stun-based Vestal with Jester) it seems to me like it would be comparatively weaker than what they would get out of Occultist.