Longest Delay Before Starting Courtyard?

[SergeTroy]

I'm curious how long you can theoretically grind in the base game before really starting the Crimson Court by taking the first quest to burn the Thronging Hives. Is it really forever or have people encountered any issues with delaying for too long (beyond Town Events slowing down) - and if so, what is "too long" ?

As an example, I'm starting a new Estate (Darkest, all DLC, no mods) and rather than heading directly to the Courtyard as soon as I have what I consider a viable party, I kinda want to build up the town and my roster a bit - and by a "a bit," I actually mean, "maybe almost completely." Theoretically, I'd like to upgrade the Hamlet to the following levels:

• Survivalist - Maybe 3 or 4 ranks of price reduction
  
• Stagecoach - 6 weekly recruits and full 28 slots in the roster
  
• Tavern - nothing at all, I dislike the tavern mostly (except when I want to put my vestals in the Brothel...)
  
• Sanitarium - Full price discounts for Treatment (positive / negative quirks) and 2 open slots on both Treatment and the Medical Devices (diseases) ward
  
• The Abbey - probably just the first rank of stress and price reduction on all slots, or not
  
• The Guild - Instructor Mastery level 2 & Training Regimen level 5 (full price reduction and the first two skill ranks, so that my level 2 Heroes can get their rank 3 skills at a full discount)
  
• The Blacksmith - full upgrade of the Furnace and level 2 for both Weaponsmithing & Armorsmithing (again making it so my level 2 heroes can be in top form for their level)
  
• Districts - not a single damn one, though I'm split on getting the Bank (and making both Antiquarians and gold meaningless) or the Cartographer's Camp first.

I started a game kinda like this but killed it around week 60 or 70 because I'm crazy like that. I think you can actually do all of the above somewhere between weeks 30 and 40 (maybe 45). Basically I just focused on medium and long dungeons and only did the very first boss of any region (and I don't think I actually even went into the Cove).

Does anyone see any problem with running a game like this - beyond time commited and Town Events not really starting until around week 50? Appreciate any feedback

Edited for formatting

[Sir Francis]

The only problem would be that youd still need lvl 2 heros to actually do the mission once you want to, so keep some noobs around.
Else it absolutely doesnt matter.

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Originally posted by Sir Francis:

The only problem would be that youd still need lvl 2 heros to actually do the mission once you want to, so keep some noobs around.
Else it absolutely doesnt matter.

Same here really.

[SergeTroy]

Originally posted by Sir Francis:

The only problem would be that youd still need lvl 2 heros to actually do the mission once you want to, so keep some noobs around.
Else it absolutely doesnt matter.

Originally posted by Balgin Stondraeg:

Originally posted by Sir Francis:

The only problem would be that youd still need lvl 2 heros to actually do the mission once you want to, so keep some noobs around.
Else it absolutely doesnt matter.

Same here really.

Alright, awesome, thanks guys. :) I'm not overly concerned about the difficulties of making sure I still have level 1 and 2 heroes available, as I always keep an eye out for heroes that come prepackaged with high priority perks ('Quick Reflexes' on nearly everyone, 'On Guard' on back row characters, etc.). And I usually prefer to get - without using backer heroes I can't rename - my heroes off the stage coach with 1 or 2 quirks that I've got listed as top tier for their class. It can be a real nightmare trying to 'farm' quirks via leveling, bas reliefs, etc.

[Zunkin]

My first run basically went as you described and the biggest issue is the opportunity cost. Assuming you can iron man the CC dungeons they are a VERY efficient source of both resolve experience in addition to powerful trinkets. The sorts of trinkets you can get from the CC quests are most useful in the early to mid game where they will likely be the best things you can find most of the time. You also lose out on a bunch of cool hamlet events and replace them with a crappy one that makes recovering stress more difficult.

[SergeTroy]

I dunno, there are CC trinket sets that for some classes are pretty much top tier from beginning of the game to end game (Occultist is a good example, as is the Crusader's, Flagellants, MaA's, and Hellion's). I'm also planning on sticking to purely apprentice level dungeons and not doing more than the first boss of any region (Necromancer, Wizened Hag, Swine Prince, and maybe Siren). That way I'll have plenty of opportunity to use the CC trinkets in the larger game.

Edited because I suck at spelling.

[Zunkin]

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

I dunno, there are CC trinket sets that for some classes are pretty much top tier from beginning of the game to end game (Occultist is a good example, as is the Crusader's, Flagellants, MaA's, and Hellion's). I'm also planning on sticking to purely apprentice level dungeons and not doing more than the first boss of any region (Necromancer, Wizened Hag, Swine Prince, and maybe Siren). That way I'll have plenty of

Yeah, there really are some stand out trinkets in the CC sets. I'm not a fan of the Flagellant's set at all, but the Hellion's set is solid and the Occultist's blood pact is one of the most powerful trinkets in the game. The Man at Arm's set is particularly nice on some boss runs or in antiquarian parties. The Grave Robber's letter opener is amazing if you are using a lunge build.

Other than a handful of really stand out CC trinkets that are top tier regardless of how far you are into the game what sets CC trinkets apart is how early in the game you can go after them and it sounds like you will be opening up the CC early enough to get some real use out of even the mediocre ones. It all comes down personal preference. There is no wrong way to tackle the game so long as you come out on top in the end.

[SergeTroy]

snip

Originally posted by zunkin:

... I'm not a fan of the Flagellant's set at all ...

/end snip

I hear you, though it's hard to say what they could have done for him. Better death blow resist is something you can have just by using either suffer or you can almost cap with Unyielding (I think the cap is 85 or 87, right?). They did give him a better bleed chance, and making him vulnerable to bleed is actually kinda useful. Other than a trinket that increases the DOT for his bleed - which I don't know if they can do - that's pretty much a wrap for that. The only other benefit he could use is increasing his healing ability for stress or pure damage. Other things will just have to come through a variety of balance passes I expect we may see at some point - though if they left him as is, right now I'm honetlly just fine with that. I only wish I felt Exsanguinate was a superior choice to either Punish or Redeem, and that Rain of Sorrows wasn't so situational.

snip the second

Originally posted by zunkin:

... There is no wrong way to tackle the game so long as you come out on top in the end.

/end snip

Yeah, that's always been one of my biggest issues with a lot of games since I got back into a larger world of gaming with Fallout 3 back in 2008 or whatever (previously really had only played 4 or 5 video games in my entire life (SW: Dark Forces II, the Baldur's Gate Series (no EE for me!), Half-Life 2, and Doom 3). The idea of open world gaming with no correct starting point or direction was a rough one for me to get used to.

[Sir Francis]

the +10 dodge on the flagellant set really dont make sense, you want him to get hit, right?
Id change it to "+10 dodge if hp under 50%"

[SergeTroy]

Originally posted by Sir Francis:

the +10 dodge on the flagellant set really dont make sense, you want him to get hit, right?
Id change it to "+10 dodge if hp under 50%"

Yeah, that's a pretty good idea. I gave some thought to adding Hard Skinned as a good quirk to get, but there's already Suffer. It would be kinda nice if when they got to death's door, they auto cancelled currently ongoing DOT affects like blight and bleed. Most of my Flagellants I generally try for Quick Reflexes, Hard Noggin, and Unyielding.

[Zunkin]

On the Flagellant I like some combination of speed, crit chance, damage/accuracy, healing boosting, max hp, bleed chance and death blow resist. Crit chance is great on any character but is particularly amazing on characters with large DOT attacks since it increases the DOT stack from 3 to 5 rounds. Nothing feels as good as criting a boss with Exsanguinate on round one. The Flagellant is the only character I actually like with the Martyr's Seal since he is good with extra HP and a little bit of life insurance is always welcome on a guy who likes to flirt with low hp.

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

I only wish I felt Exsanguinate was a superior choice to either Punish or Redeem, and that Rain of Sorrows wasn't so situational.

I think overall Punish is the better skill because of its superior reach, but I will almost always run Exsanguinate along side it. Those huge bleeds with a self heal stapled onto them are amazing. Redeem is also amazing and I will almost always run that as one of my default skills on the Flagellant. Suffer is usually my 4th skill, but I will change it out for his stress heal if the party needs it. I don't run Rain of Sorrows at all and I rarely use his heal over time ability either.

[SergeTroy]

@ zunkin

Yeah, the only reason I really ever use Reclaim is for the self bleed that opens up Redeem / Exsanguinate - and it's super funny when I Reclaim and the Flagellant immediately resists his own self inflicted bleed.

[Sir Francis]

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

@ zunkin

Yeah, the only reason I really ever use Reclaim is for the self bleed that opens up Redeem / Exsanguinate - and it's super funny when I Reclaim and the Flagellant immediately resists his own self inflicted bleed.

thats why i keep "anemic" on my flagellants^^

[SergeTroy]

Originally posted by Sir Francis:

Originally posted by SergeTroy:

@ zunkin

Yeah, the only reason I really ever use Reclaim is for the self bleed that opens up Redeem / Exsanguinate - and it's super funny when I Reclaim and the Flagellant immediately resists his own self inflicted bleed.

thats why i keep "anemic" on my flagellants^^

LOL, no doubt. I picked up one a few in-game weeks ago and almost put his 0 level butt in the sanitarium for cheap removal before I thought, "Wait, why would I do that?!"