This game... 2k Aus can just go away now.

[Albinosaurus]

There are so many things to say about this game... Where to start?

I have been a HUGE fan of Borderlands since the first game, and have had all the DLC for the first two games except some of the Headhunter packs in 2 (because they just weren't a good value). That said, this game irritates me in a number of ways.

1. Too much Aussie slang and voice acting. It doesn't feel like Borderlands and it's just plain awkward. Then there's Pickle and his stupid accent and dumb phrases like "one inch pinch." Just stop. Please. Would it really kill them to get a more diverse cast of voice actors? I get it. The devs are based in Aus. Good for them. Borderlands exists on Pandora and Elpis. It has all kinds of people, not just Aussies. The way they did it in this game just comes across as racist.

2. A lot of the game feels directly "copy -> paste" from BL2 assets. I understand reusing some of them. It saves time and money for the devs, but this game is full of dev shortcuts that are too obvious to a player and some of them actually create extra, needless work for the player too.

3. Socio-political stuff in real life interjected into the game just feels forced. I honestly couldn't care less if people are black, white, gay, straight, pilots, or farmers, but this game is PACKED with garbage about characters that has nothing to do with their personal development in relation to the story--or about the story itself. Worse still, they wanna tell you--a complete stranger who mass murders for fun and profit--all about it. Shaking my head so much...

4. TVHM and UVHM are f***ed. BL2 did a great job by having slag balance out the inflated stats. Cryo was a cool addition (no pun intended), but there are several places during this game where they talk about slag, so there's no reason it shouldn't be part of this game. Cryo does not balance the harder difficulties the way slag did, and yet the enemies' health and damage are just as inflated. There's no reason the game couldn't have had both.

5. Bosses suck! Well, most of them. They are either one-dimensional or gimmicky. Just a few off the top of my head:

-The Bosun, gimmicky in three ways. Flying piece of ****, endlessly spawns trash, and has stupid shield generators.
-Redbelly. Endless trash and stupid mask that deflects shots.
-Kampfjet. Another flying ***hole with tons of respawning trash. Worse, his fly-by bombing run with nukes has a huge aoe and does way too much damage for an enemy that moves so fast.
-Flame Knuckle. Just boring. Nothing special.

That said, I did like 3 of the bosses:

-Deadlift. Jump pads make it a fun fight where you can interact with the environment as part of your strategy.
-Zarpedon. Cool artistic choice, and boss mechanics are actually interesting.
-Empyrean Sentinel. Multi-form fights are usually interesting, and this is no exception. The fight itself has lots of cool stuff going on. Wish there was a bit less trash involved though.

6. Vehicles have no place in shooters. Just stop doing it. The jump with the Stingray is barely clearable and easy to mess up--not to mention gets interrupted if you take damage while attempting it. Beyond that, vehicles never added much to the previous BL games either. They just got away with it because there wasn't anything too demanding of that feature.

7. I've come to expect the DLC-whoring in this franchise, but this game doesn't deserve it. It's got plenty of stuff to fix before DLC should even be a consideration. The most immediate thing that comes to mind is how little content the base game actually had. It was easily 1/3 shorter than either of the first two games, and has a lot less to explore outside of the story too. I really feel they owe us players (and customers) that other 1/3 of a game that we paid for.

8. Butt-stomping is dumb. And ineffective. Just stop. Same with the O2 garbage.

Overall, it just feels like a lazy copy/paste cash in rather than a true Borderlands experience. It's got Call of Duty Syndrome written all over it. Cryo weapons and the Grinder were cool additions, but those are about the only thing that this game really added to the franchise. The main story was enjoyable, but certain parts are highly inconsistent with previously established lore. I'm not sure this one can be considered "canon."

[Albinosaurus]

Originally posted by Teksura:

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

The moon areas are the only environment that even feel different, and that is ruined with the low grav nonsense (another huge annoyance throughout the game).

So, I asked if someone could go into detail about what more should have been done differently compared to the last game. So far the answer is "more" and also a statement that you want areas that feel different without the "annoyance" of them actually being different. So, they needed to do something different, but don't dare do anything new or interesting. I don't think there is any pleasing you on that one.

That's some sweet cherry-picking you've done there, but if you read the rest of the post that you took that quote from, you would know what kind of differences I was looking for.

Originally posted by TheTome56:

Um... Have you ever considered this to be a personal problem instead of an industry problem?

Perhaps this is not a sign of all games this year being bad, but rather a sign that you are no longer as interested or entertained by gaming as you once were.

It might be something you need to think about

Making assumptions about me rather than addressing the arguments doesn't prove anything. Worse, it's wrong. BL2 is still incredibly fun to me and doesn't annoy the crap out of me with the problems I listed in the OP. That's only one example too. Lots of games are still highly enjoyable.


@WiggilyWah:

Just going to have to agree to disagree. Most of the counter-points you make are things I absolutely disagree with. Thanks for at least addressing the argument in a thoughtful way though.

Originally posted by Willowblade:

Hush bro, you wouldn't want to give the impression you want Borderlands 3 to become classic MMO stuff now would you?

I kind of thought that too when I read it, but some of those elements would be welcome additions. Just don't make it feel like another WoW clone (or any other current MMO) and I think they could get away with it. The games in this series are half way there already.

[TheTome56]

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

Making assumptions about me rather than addressing the arguments doesn't prove anything. Worse, it's wrong. BL2 is still incredibly fun to me and doesn't annoy the crap out of me with the problems I listed in the OP. That's only one example too. Lots of games are still highly enjoyable.

Uh... if it's wrong, then why did you say THIS on the first page:

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

"Between this, the MMO, RTS, and FPS slump games are in... I'm so disappointed with game devs these days."

What part of that says: 'Lots of games are still highly enjoyable' to you?

I'm only working with the posts you've given me, after all.

[tastemyrath]

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

Making assumptions about me rather than addressing the arguments doesn't prove anything. Worse, it's wrong. BL2 is still incredibly fun to me and doesn't annoy the crap out of me with the problems I listed in the OP. That's only one example too. Lots of games are still highly enjoyable.

Well most of your "arguments" were discredited here by various posters, yet you continue to change and tweak your reponses based on that feedback. And besides .... you only have less than 70h on BL2, you barely scratched the surface of both games.

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

I kind of thought that too when I read it, but some of those elements would be welcome additions. Just don't make it feel like another WoW clone (or any other current MMO) and I think they could get away with it. The games in this series are half way there already.

Borderlands is foremost a shooter with a few MMO based aspects, what you propose is going completely against what this franchise is. This is not Firefall or Destiny ...

[Albinosaurus]

I see you continue to cherry pick in an attempt to make my statements sound contradictory, so this is likely the last response (from you) that I'm going to justify with an answer if you continue to do so.

Let's look at recent major game releases that stood out. This isn't an exhaustive list, but should give a good idea of where I'm coming from.

2014.
Farcry 4 was decent, but not overly impressive and not a series I've played before. Fans of the series have mixed views on it for many similar reasons that I do about TPS.

Destiny was a horrible flop. Some people liked it, but it was a game that was hyped up endlessly in the media, but then the devs forgot to finish it before release.

COD: Modern Assault Super Warfare Extreme Pro Yadda Yadda Yadda...
Copy/Paste/Ship/???/Profit -- 'Nuff said.

DA: Inquisition looks good, but haven't played it yet, so reserving judgment/opinions until I try it.

Shadows of Morder is alright. Assassin's Creed meets God of War? Decent enough. Can't complain, but it wasn't amazing. It's fun enough to play, but not enough to brag to your friends about.

SP: Stick of Truth was decently done, but the actual game play was average (in a good way) without being amazing. It's more the kind of game you play for the South Park humor than for the RPG game play.

Hearthstone had promise, but it really felt like a p2w game in a f2p disguise. I wasn't inclined to grind the hundreds of hours necessary to feel viably competitive. Outside of that, it's actually well designed and I could see myself playing it if the accessibility barriers were removed.

Titanfall looks great, but it screams, "I'm a COD game with mechs and parkour." It's been awhile since competitive shooter based on multiplayer could really hold my attention, and I really feel it's because they fail to innovate--by the way, that's the same source of complaint that caused me to say that MMOs, RTS, and FPS are in a slump. There's too much copy/paste and not enough innovation.

ESO could have been so good, but it failed. It's a shame, because I was hoping it would revive MMOs and get other game companies to up their standards too. Oh, well.

D3: Reaper of Souls? No. If the base game fails, I'm not going to purchase an expansion to "see if they fixed it." I stopped caring about that game long before they even announced the expac.

2013.
GTA 5. All the fans say they love it, but the last one I cared to play was Vice City. Either way, props to R* for pleasing their fans.

SC2: Heart of the Swarm looked good at first, but I could afford it right away. By the time I had enough money and interest to consider it, they had already removed the things I wanted from it (namely, more unique Terran units and interesting game play). That game is too hard locked in its meta for the expansion to make it interesting. (Note that I mean it's overall meta, and not the nuanced meta for those in the top end of ranked.)

COD: Ghosts. It's a COD game. There's nothing to see here. Just more copy/paste.

Metro: Last Light has its loyal fans, but I never played the series. Basically same deal here as GTA 5. Devs pleased their fans. Well done.

2012.
Mass Effect 3. Highly controversial due to some bad dev judgment, but I actually liked this one a lot. Most of the complaints centered around the ending and plot problems, but the game play was everything I hoped for and then some.

BL2. You can take a guess how I feel about this game. (Hint: I love it.)

Diablo 3. Travesty beyond the scope of this tiny section of a comment. Utter failure. Only sold so many copies because it had "Diablo" and "Blizzard" on the box. This was before everything Blizzard started to go to sh**.

Torchlight 2. Fantastic game. Did so much right that Diablo failed in. It has a few flaws, but nothing that makes the game unenjoyable. They are really more in the replayability department.

WoW: Mists of Panderia. This was the final nail in the WoW coffin for me. This was why I never resubbed. Cata did some heavy damage before hand, but MoP dealt the deciding blow. Too much dumbing down of a game that was already not that complex. It basically became Barbie + Pokemon rather than Warcraft.

Hitman: Absolution. Let's take a sandbox game focused on finding different and creative ways of playing and reduce it to a linear rail shooter. Seems legit, right? Sure, that's probably a bit hyperbolic, but hey, at least they took the story in a decent direction...

-----

I excluded a few important games that I wasn't sure what year they came out, because they are Indie games--and I usually avoid those like the plague--but these are noteworthy and I did enjoy them.

Path of Exile (superbly done; it's what Diablo wants to be when it grows up)
Hawken (fun for awhile, but needs something... more)
Firefall (kind of incomplete, but otherwise decent)



Bottom line is simple: Devs don't seem to know their audience (with a few exceptions), and the last couple years have been a veritable gaming drought. Most games are either outright terrible, or strive for a strong "meh" rating. The games I still enjoy most are going on 3 years old because there's so little new stuff of real interest. The industry needs innovation, but it has become so monetized that the cash grab has become more important than the art, and it's a real struggle to find the gems buried under all the sh**. Reminds me of the "gaming crash" in the 80's before Nintendo came out.

Just to be clear, innovation is not just "add x feature to y game." It's a whole different game. They could start by coming up with more original titles instead making everything into a 3 part (or 15 part) series. Or if they want to use the same universe, at least make a different story. The makers of Mass Effect claim their next game won't be about Shephard, and I hope that's true. I also hope the game plays differently from ME2 or 3.

[Albinosaurus]

Originally posted by neus:

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

Making assumptions about me rather than addressing the arguments doesn't prove anything. Worse, it's wrong. BL2 is still incredibly fun to me and doesn't annoy the crap out of me with the problems I listed in the OP. That's only one example too. Lots of games are still highly enjoyable.

Well most of your "arguments" were discredited here by various posters, yet you continue to change and tweak your reponses based on that feedback. And besides .... you only have less than 70h on BL2, you barely scratched the surface of both games.

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

I kind of thought that too when I read it, but some of those elements would be welcome additions. Just don't make it feel like another WoW clone (or any other current MMO) and I think they could get away with it. The games in this series are half way there already.

Borderlands is foremost a shooter with a few MMO based aspects, what you propose is going completely against what this franchise is. This is not Firefall or Destiny ...

1. You are hilarious. My BL2 on Steam has less than 70h. I have all but 1 or 2 achievements on Xbox.

2. BL is already almost an MMO, and there's nothing mutually exclusive about the terms MMO and FPS (see Firefall). It's either blindness or willfull ignorance to not see that. It's foolish to not admit it. Still, that doesn't preclude the option to add more features that could improve the game such as expanded equipment, craftable gear, and deeper character customization (beyond just cosmetic stuff).

3. Nobody has "discredited" anything here. Only 2 or 3 people have even addressed the arguments because most everyone else--including you--are more concerned with launching personal attacks. Nice try, though.

[darksouls]

Originally posted by Quote:

Aus can just go away now.

Originally posted by Quote:

The way they did it in this game just comes across as racist.

Originally posted by Quote:

Aus can just go away now.

Originally posted by Quote:

just comes across as racist.

[tastemyrath]

Originally posted by Albinosaurus:

1. You are hilarious. My BL2 on Steam has less than 70h. I have all but 1 or 2 achievements on Xbox.

2. BL is already almost an MMO, and there's nothing mutually exclusive about the terms MMO and FPS (see Firefall). It's either blindness or willfull ignorance to not see that. It's foolish to not admit it. Still, that doesn't preclude the option to add more features that could improve the game such as expanded equipment, craftable gear, and deeper character customization (beyond just cosmetic stuff).

3. Nobody has "discredited" anything here. Only 2 or 3 people have even addressed the arguments because most everyone else--including you--are more concerned with launching personal attacks. Nice try, though.

1. Cool story brah, care to share us your XBL handle ?

2. No ... it's not almost an MMO. It's a "Shoot and Loot" type of game wich has some features borrowed by RPG's, mostly a leveling system, a few classes and random loot and some out of MMOs that facilitate the longevity of the game. Still WAY WAY far from both a RPG or MMORPG game, not even close.

3. Pretty sure i've listed a list of counter arguments based on most of your posts but it seems you've chosen to ignored them when it feels rigth to you. And can you please give me one passage on all my posts where i "personally attacked" you ? No, please, i'm really interested on that.

[Borcen Elfgutter]

I wasn't real happy with the Pre-Sequel, either. The playable characters were boring, the NPCs you interact with were boring. The skill trees full of passives were boring. Many of the bosses were more obnoxious and cheesy than difficult.

Pre-Sequel is just a sub-part game when you compare it to what you get with BL2 and the DLCs over there. I found virtually none of the game humorous which to me was the selling point of BL1 and BL2.

[thehappyhandkerchief]

Originally posted by Borcen Elfgutter:

I wasn't real happy with the Pre-Sequel, either. The playable characters were boring, the NPCs you interact with were boring. The skill trees full of passives were boring. Many of the bosses were more obnoxious and cheesy than difficult.

Pre-Sequel is just a sub-part game when you compare it to what you get with BL2 and the DLCs over there. I found virtually none of the game humorous which to me was the selling point of BL1 and BL2.

Word word

[Dr.Abscondus]

Agree with OP. Ryhming slang especially irritating because I don't think rythming couplet is immediately followed by the word it stands for otherwise what is the point?
Dropped this game after 250 hours and won't be buying any DLC because I can't stand the thought of playing through it even one more time. Steam shows I have 1877 hours on BL2 which doesn't include the 1000 hours or so I played offline to avoid the patch which nerfed the Bee shield. Only went back online after buying the final big DLC. Still go back to BL2 inbetween major releases. It never gets old.
Very sorry I paid full price for TPS but happy I didn't buy the season pass.

[Hawknoob]

I believe I understand where both sides are coming from. I also think that in the end it boils down to personal taste. I really enjoyed BL2, and I am still playing some of its DLCs.

Initially, I wasn't that impressed with the Pre-Sequel, because of the uninspiring Concordia and the various hours spent "running errands" that seem to plague the first part of the game. However, I have to admit that the game has grown on me. Now that I started leveling up, getting cooler and more powerful weapons, and finally managed to master the low gravity combat (I use and abuse the ground n' pound and consequent melee) I am enjoying the game much more.

Maybe this is not a GOTY by any means, and I agree with those who said that it feels more like a big expansion of BL2, but that's not enough reason for me to "hate" the game. It's still a plenty enjoyable title that has familiar feel with mechanics and some features that made BL2 quite the awesome game.

Considering the fiasco of other recent titles that were rushed in the market undeveloped and infested by thousand bugs and problems, the Pre-Sequel could have been way worse, and I'm glad it's not.

Just my 0.2 cents.

[thehappyhandkerchief]

Originally posted by Rafix:

I believe I understand where both sides are coming from. I also think that in the end it boils down to personal taste. I really enjoyed BL2, and I am still playing some of its DLCs.

Initially, I wasn't that impressed with the Pre-Sequel, because of the uninspiring Concordia and the various hours spent "running errands" that seem to plague the first part of the game. However, I have to admit that the game has grown on me. Now that I started leveling up, getting cooler and more powerful weapons, and finally managed to master the low gravity combat (I use and abuse the ground n' pound and consequent melee) I am enjoying the game much more.

Maybe this is not a GOTY by any means, and I agree with those who said that it feels more like a big expansion of BL2, but that's not enough reason for me to "hate" the game. It's still a plenty enjoyable title that has familiar feel with mechanics and some features that made BL2 quite the awesome game.

Considering the fiasco of other recent titles that were rushed in the market undeveloped and infested by thousand bugs and problems, the Pre-Sequel could have been way worse, and I'm glad it's not.

Just my 0.2 cents.

Its enjoyable til you hit level cap..

[Hawknoob]

Not necessarily. Level cap is earned after spending so many hours playing a title, and I enjoy the mighty power that comes with it. I had tons of fun playing bl2 at 50lv and still do with its dlc.

Yes, I haven't finshed the pre-sequel yet, but if we consider that I started it not feeling so enthusiastic about it and that now I'm enjoying it, I feel optimist. I'm sure that I will spend some more hours shooting and looting, and in the end chillaxing with a good game, which is why I like gaming.

[thehappyhandkerchief]

Originally posted by Rafix:

Not necessarily. Level cap is earned after spending so many hours playing a title, and I enjoy the mighty power that comes with it. I had tons of fun playing bl2 at 50lv and still do with its dlc.

Yes, I haven't finshed the pre-sequel yet, but if we consider that I started it not feeling so enthusiastic about it and that now I'm enjoying it, I feel optimist. I'm sure that I will spend some more hours shooting and looting, and in the end chillaxing with a good game, which is why I like gaming.

naa bl tps has imo no endgame

[Hawknoob]

Well, even if the end game is disappointing (and that's true for many good titles after all) it doesn't mean that one cannot still enjoy playing through the game's campaign for hours and have fun.

I sense a general negativity surrounding this game, as if it were a major disappointment, which may be triggered by price vs quality ratio. If what came out of TPS doesn't justify the not cheap launch price for what it offers, then it may be better wait, spend less bucks, and still enjoy a more than decent game that can provide some hours of entertainment.