So what are you thoughts about the story of the game?

[☂Aqua☂]

I Just finished the game 20 minutes ago and I want to share and see people thoughts of the story.

SPOILERS BELOW:

For me the game has such a good story but I still prefer Borderlands 2 story,but I guess Jack was never a villan back in this game,he was a good guy trying to protect the world,but Moxxi,Roland and Lilith betrayed Jack destroying the Helios Station Eye. Before this Jack was normal and was really fun and interacted with the characters but after he get betrayed things get darker.
My conclusion is that if Roland,Moxxi and Lilith don't messed up with everything,Jack would saved the moon and Pandora them Jack would use the laser to destroy bandits and would not turn into a evil guy.
Roland's death seems pretty fair after playing pre-sequel

[Goz]

I thought the story in this game was a lot deeper and more engrossing than BL2's story. I think that despite Jack's good intentions that there was always something wrong with him. The point of the Pre Sequel is to explain what pushed him over the edge, not how he changed from hero to villain. I mean he explains in BL2 that he duped the original vault hunters into opening the first vault and he takes credit for killing the Destroyer. (as indicated in Opportunity) Not to mention that during all this, he must have had Angel under his control. Jack simply cannot be justified in any of his actions, the Pre Sequel just explains the events that would lead to him being pushed to the extremes of his hero complex.

I overall really liked the characters and story of the game. However I really hate how Lilith is portrayed in this game (she spent all of Tiny Tina's DLC explaining how she had to move on from Roland's death and now for absolutely no reason, she is completely hateful towards Athena for potentially being a factor in his death) and I feel that the ending was made purely to confirm a BL3.

[Akoran]

Whoayeah eredeti hozzászólása:

I do see him badmouthing his boss over echo to be disrespectful as such as the sidequests post Meriff's death. But the Meriff did deserve it in the sense he was seen as working for the enemy & he opened fire on Jack while he had his back turned. Jack's been getting shot at all the time leading up to that point so it makes sense he's alert to danger & ready at the trigger.

As far as Borderlands 2 is concerned. Even though it was released first, Pre-Sequel is first as far as story goes so you should disregard everything from Borderlands 2. If you come into the Pre-Sequel thinking about Borderlands 2 & how Jack deserves everything he gets then you're doing it wrong.

If you play through the story again but think of Jack as a normal person just like Janey Springs is portrayed you can see that he's not necessarily evil, just disrespectful.

What Jack did to the Meriff after he killed him is NOT justified. He vandalizes the Merrifs statue, sends the head into Pandora on a rocket (god knows what it hit?) while having a song made in his dis(!)honor. Maybe you could say he was really close to the Merrif and needed an outlet for his sorrow, but Jack never shows regret or sorrow over the loss of the Meriff. At no point do we get the feeling Jack actually cares about the Meriff beyond him having the potential to help us. That´s a fact. There is simply no reason for Jack to act to the Meriff post-death the way he does if we are supposed to view him as a hero.

You misunderstand the meaning of BL2 in terms of Jacks role. While lorewise TPS comes first, as players we know Jack because of BL2. Therefore, the game is made with that in mind. If Jack was supposed to be the hero, the first thing we would experience from Jack would be actions to clearly and continuously show us that he was NOT the villain that we know from BL2. And that is not the case.

I actually expected Jack to be a hero turned sour by unfortunate events. That was what I expected when I played through the game. But Jacks rude, disrespectful and mean spirited character does not fit into this. The only point throughout the games where we get even a hint of him being good-willed is when he gives the vault hunter the shuttle to Elpis at the beginning of the game and when he hesitates to install Felicity into the Constructor prototype. Beyond these 2 points of the game, Jack is NEVER a likeable person. ever. It does not matter if you think his actions aren´t downright evil from the get-go, this is about whether we are supposed to view Jack as a hero gone villain or a villain waiting to happen.
If you look at Jacks text and consider that everything he says and everything he does, and every tone has been specifically chosen by the devs, you cannot deny that Jack displays too many dislikeable qualities too early compared to his positives to be anything but dislikeable from the players perspective.

[Tirigon]

I think Jack actually DID start out as a hero, but right from the start (quote: "I've.... never been shot at before. Huh. Kinda fun actually") he has this weird thing going where he really really enjoys fighting and killing (well weird to us, not to a Borderlands person where it's pretty much normal. Quote from Salvador: "Yea. Killing bandits is ALWAYS fun".) He just copes with it differently than others: Lilith kind of pretends it is done out of necessity, Salvador and Brick just flat-out admit that killing is their greatest joy etc.....

Jack, on the other hand, always tries to repress it. But when he actually does kill someone out of necessity, or feeling it's justice or something, that is when he breaks his demeanour and thoroughly enjoys it - basically a bit of "well they are dead anyways, might as well have some fun with it".

The ending didnt so much turn him into a crazy psychopath, it just broke his inner restriction once and for all, and from then on he doesnt try to keep his self-control anymore, he just flat-out enjoys making others suffer.

[Squidy The Cowboy Catgirl]

Honestly, after finishing it, I feel really sorry for Jack and like a total jerk for everything that happens in Borderlands 2...

[zacharyb]

Tirigon eredeti hozzászólása:

I think Jack actually DID start out as a hero, but right from the start (quote: "I've.... never been shot at before. Huh. Kinda fun actually") he has this weird thing going where he really really enjoys fighting and killing (well weird to us, not to a Borderlands person where it's pretty much normal. Quote from Salvador: "Yea. Killing bandits is ALWAYS fun".) He just copes with it differently than others: Lilith kind of pretends it is done out of necessity, Salvador and Brick just flat-out admit that killing is their greatest joy etc.....

Jack, on the other hand, always tries to repress it. But when he actually does kill someone out of necessity, or feeling it's justice or something, that is when he breaks his demeanour and thoroughly enjoys it - basically a bit of "well they are dead anyways, might as well have some fun with it".

The ending didnt so much turn him into a crazy psychopath, it just broke his inner restriction once and for all, and from then on he doesnt try to keep his self-control anymore, he just flat-out enjoys making others suffer.

Well i'm assuming getting shot at could be fun, with the amount of adrenaline that gets pumped into you. It could also be masochistic-ish.

But even though he said fun, he may not necessarily have meant fun. He could have meant exciting or something like that.

Just got to look at it in different perspectives.

[Akoran]

Evil Vyse eredeti hozzászólása:

This is just the way people act in Borderlands. Have you forgotten all the nasty, petty things we do in all 3 games for people? How about the family war and numerous deaths we trigger in BL2 just because Scooter's sister has a grudge?

Main difference being, when we as players kill something, it is either shown to us as justified, or it is glossed over (such as the family war). When Jack kills people or does something evil, the game takes time to let us (And Jack too!) aknowledge that what he just did was evil. That is why we as players are supposed to be the good guy in the story while Jack is the bad guy even though we technically do the same things.

[Phenrir]

The story was ok, not bad. I would compare it to something in the lines of an action flick. Telling a good backstory and making a plot while under a hail of gunfire, unending body count, and massive explosions. I love this game, even with all the bugs, flaws, and glitches.

[Akoran]

Evil Vyse eredeti hozzászólása:

Jack is pretty much justified in TPS by either having his hand forced (the Meriff) or being under extreme time contraints and threat of imminent lunar explosion (Felicity, the 4 scientists) which while I'm sure would make Mr. Torgue happy would be a downer for everyone else.

As for BL2. Jack justifies everything he does with calling all his opponents bandits.. and whether he's right or not is irrelevant. He justifies himself the same way everyone you the player works for does. Actually he does this more often, because there are several times that you go on a mission which amounts to "kill this guy cause I don't like his stupid face."

First of all, don´t think for a second you can justify Jacks actions in BL2. He is, without a shadow of a doubt, the villain. There is no argument about that.

Instead of trying to justify Jack as a hero, imagine how he SHOULD act as a hero and compare that to what he actually does.
Does a hero lash out at someone he just tried to let live, shooting him several times over and over even though we clearly see at the start that he is more than masterfully skilled at 1-shot kills?
Does a hero take a moment to aknowledge how good the murder felt?
Does a hero insult the memory of the people he kills?
Does a hero install his own daughter as a cyborg AI for the Echonet with programming so she acts as he wants at all times?
Does a hero need to compare people to bandits before he can shoot them?
Does a hero create weapons of mass destruction?
Does a hero act rude towards the people he works for, or the people who help him?
Does a hero kill several innocents because there MAY be a single traitor amongst them?

No. A hero does none of these things. Not even Krieg has a line after a kill where he comments on how nice it felt to kill stuff. Because even though Krieg is a murdering maniac, we aren´t supposed to dislike Krieg. You might like Jack or think he´s doing what needs to be done, but that doesn´t change the fact that the developers clearly do not want you to see Jack as a hero. Not in TPS, not in BL2. If you think he is supposed to be the hero, please explain how Jack, as the classic hero character, can be allowed to do the aforementioned things. And no, time constraints, stress or a moment of weakness cannot explain them, because other classic heroes never succumb to such things.

[Akoran]

Evil Vyse eredeti hozzászólása:

Your arbitrary generic rules for heroism are irrelevant, especially in the crapsack world of Borderlands where nobody is clean.

Right, discussion over. If you´re really so stuborn that you just dismiss stuff that you can´t argue against, then I won´t waste my time.

[Whoa]

Akoran eredeti hozzászólása:

Evil Vyse eredeti hozzászólása:

This is just the way people act in Borderlands. Have you forgotten all the nasty, petty things we do in all 3 games for people? How about the family war and numerous deaths we trigger in BL2 just because Scooter's sister has a grudge?

Main difference being, when we as players kill something, it is either shown to us as justified, or it is glossed over (such as the family war). When Jack kills people or does something evil, the game takes time to let us (And Jack too!) aknowledge that what he just did was evil. That is why we as players are supposed to be the good guy in the story while Jack is the bad guy even though we technically do the same things.

We're not saying Jack's the hero. There's no heroes on Borderlands. It's a dog-eat-dog, survival of the fittest kinda world. We're just saying he's not evil & he doesn't deserve to deal with all the crap he goes through & he definately doesn't deserve to be seen as the villan.

Just because the writers suck doesn't mean we need to mindlessly agree with what they're trying to achieve. A lot of people don't see him as a villan. Poor writing or not; We won't change our minds.

[Tirigon]

Akoran eredeti hozzászólása:

No. A hero does none of these things. Not even Krieg has a line after a kill where he comments on how nice it felt to kill stuff. Because even though Krieg is a murdering maniac, we aren´t supposed to dislike Krieg. .

Actually Krieg - and pretty much all Vault Hunters - DO have such lines. In fact, for Krieg even one of his idle lines is something like "I want to bury my thumbs in someone's eye socket right now", and they all love brutal, gruesome kills, usually laughing or applauding themselves for headshot kills, grenade-multikills etc....

The only Vault hunters that do NOT thoroughly enjoy killing are Roland, who is the stereotypical internet white knight (as becomes painfully obvious in TTAoDK, where Tiny Tina actually refers to him as the White Knight) and possibly Axton (but I am not sure about him, and anyways he hardly counts since he doesn't really have any personality besides "we should have at least one character for those who dont want to play a psychotic, axe-crazy mass murderer").

zacharyb eredeti hozzászólása:

Well i'm assuming getting shot at could be fun, with the amount of adrenaline that gets pumped into you. It could also be masochistic-ish.

But even though he said fun, he may not necessarily have meant fun. He could have meant exciting or something like that.

Just got to look at it in different perspectives.

You might believe that if you had never played BL2. But seeing how he laughingly tells you about how funny it was when he gouged someone's eyes out with a spooon - a friggin spooooon! - and how much he looks forward to not only murder all the vault hunters but slowly torture them to death, then it becomes painfully obvious that he's just a sadistic psychopath, and considering that it is also obvious that he has these tendencies from the start. However, in the beginning he keeps them repressed, and actually is somewhat surprised when he realises how much fun killing is, while he gradually loses his restriction, and his disfigurement at the end is what breaks it once and for all.

[☂Aqua☂]

I Forgot to mention it but most of people thought that Springs would be a important character with a huge plot like Tiny Tina mom,but her plot is nothing

[Miqs]

Jack was going to let Meriff live despite working with the enemy and selling out but then he goes and pulls a gun on Jack in an attempt to kill him. Of course Jack is going to defend himself and he even cursed him for being so stupid though he did show enjoyment in it, but the PCs aren't so rosy, peace loving persons either.

With Felicity he made the call to wipe her out because time was a luxury he couldn't afford at that time when there was a gigantic laser trying to blow up the moon. One person's (or AI's) needs doesn't outweight the needs of all the people living on the moon.

Moxxi, Roland and Lilith all stabbed him in the back on the space station and they attempted to assassinate him in the Vault, causing his downfall. Lilith at the end tries to kill Athena for helping Jack and conviniently forgets she was in the same boat as she was, a hired gun. This is why I like Wilhelm, he doesn't give a damn as long as the money is good, as it should be with every good merc.

Jack couldn't trust the scientists after what Meriff did and at that point a betrayal would've caused him to lose station and moon and with moon exploding it would've taken a good chunk of Pandora along with it. They were expendable and a danger to the mission. (Also the scientists were so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying that I would've gladly pushed the button to throw them out of the airlock)