*SPOILERS* Handsome Jack Issues

[PapiCuatro]

So, after completing the entire game and really liking it, I went back and played through Borderlands 1 and 2. After completing those two games again, I realized Handsome Jack's background and history are all over the place and don't make sense. According to TPS, Handsome Jack (or just Jack initially), was just a regular low-level programmer who was already good looking with no mask included, and seemed to be just a normal guy trying to make a profit for Hyperion, but while also saving the innocents on Elpis. No thoughts of brutality or signs of psychosis yet. Throughout the game, you see the transformation into the maniacal, evil "Handsome Jack", and you find out why he wears the mask (even though it looks exactly like his face).

There are a few problems with this explanation of his character evolution, and I'm not sure if the developers didn't realize this, or just decided they would change history anyways and hope that nobody noticed. The first problem arises through BL1, but is revealed in BL2. Angel (who guides you through BL1) states that Jack used her to manipulate the vault hunters in BL1 to open the Vault and kill the Destroyer because he knew it would trigger the growth of Eridium and make himself, and Hyperion rich. Angel also states that he put their lives in direct, enormous danger by doing this because he was too much of a coward to do it himself. Doesn't sound like Jack at the beginning of TPS.

Speaking of Angel, uh hello, she's his daughter and he supposedly had her imprisoned for her entire life pretty much and was pumping eridium directly into her at a rate that was incredibly fatal to her health eventually. Once again, does not line up with the supposed transformation of good Jack into Handsome Jack because this would have started way before TPS (and it did according to an audio recording found in BL2 of Jack brutally berating Angel as a little girl for not listening to him).

And finally, there are audio recordings in BL2 that have Handsome Jack recorded as being extremely brutal towards his own daughter while she was trying to find candidates to manipulate to open the first vault in BL1. Once again, nothing like Jack from TPS and that did happen BEFORE TPS. In those same audio recordings, Tassiter (a board member of Hyperion that Jack subsequently murders at the end of TPS), also calls Jack an ugly little no-nothing programmer. He repeats this in a later audio recording after Jack became CEO of Hyperion and states that he knows what is behind Jack's mask. He knows how ugly he is underneath and he'll always be that ugly little man. While TPS claims that Jack looked exactly the same before the mask, and the mask is just a copy of his now slightly scarred face.

So.....what's the deal with Jack? Ideas?

[DeadSlash]

I'm not sure if GBX can write a good story on their own, they probably tried here instead of nabbing the concept from another game/book/movie/story and it was just a disaster.

[trukr]

Originally posted by ItsRay:

@trukr can you please just stop posting in this Thread? Im 100% sure that no one wants you here.

'Ignorant Murrican

And, you think I care what you want?

[Jork]

Originally posted by sbrown9:

Originally posted by reaver235:

who got fired i missed that 1 and link ?

Anthony Burch the lead writer on Borderlands 2 and I think he helped out on TPS as a writer has left Gearbox to pursue a TV career.

http://www.polygon.com/2015/1/30/7951409/borderlands-writer-anthony-burch-leaves-gearbox-hulu

Thank ♥♥♥♥ for that, Anthony Burch is a terrible writer.

[Count Smashula]

Originally posted by trukr:

Who said anything about him being fired?

The mask is there because of what happened in the vault on Elpis, Angel was not being pumped full of eridium until after the events of TPS, Jack did not even know about the Warrior until then. Look on Jack's desk, see the picture of the girl, after the vault see what happened to that picture?

Oh, yes, even in TPS, John (Jack) is told things like "you are only there to observe Pandora"

Fun fact: the picture falls over after the explotion and destruction of the eye of Helios, not after Jack has been inside the vault and gotten the vision. Jack is just extremely lazy.

[trukr]

Originally posted by gameplayer4885:

Originally posted by trukr:

Who said anything about him being fired?

The mask is there because of what happened in the vault on Elpis, Angel was not being pumped full of eridium until after the events of TPS, Jack did not even know about the Warrior until then. Look on Jack's desk, see the picture of the girl, after the vault see what happened to that picture?

Oh, yes, even in TPS, John (Jack) is told things like "you are only there to observe Pandora"

Fun fact: the picture falls over after the explotion and destruction of the eye of Helios, not after Jack has been inside the vault and gotten the vision. Jack is just extremely lazy.

Yet NOTHING else in the area is?

[Savage Redeemer]

Firstly I think people slate Jack meremly out of dislike for him, after playing TPS, I really struggled to see why people seemed to think he was "evil" and always was. Firstly lets go through his past.

1. Angel, according to what was stated in BL2, Angel struggling to control his power killed her monther and Jacks wife. Jack was left with no choice but to seperate her from socierty so she couldnt harm anyone else again. Some peopel call it imprisoment, but maybe Jack saw it as a better alternative to completely disowning her and banishing her. It is revaled during the quest in TPS where you ask him the question regarding his wife, family etc, he simply replied next question, clearly proving that it effected Jack, that Jack loved both his wife and daughter and that the topic was painful for him to want to discuss. Maybe Jack decided to contain Angel to keep her by her side, helping him while keeping her power in check abd giving her a purpose. Jack loves Angel and he alwasy says he does. Angel also never talks to Jack as if she fears or or dislikes him. In BL2 she helps the Vault Hunters kill her because she doesnt like the path her father took after TPS.

2. Manipulating the VH to get the EOTD. Nothing wrong with that. A bullied Hyperion scientist saw the oppurtinity to make something for himself. He took it. Anyone else would have.

3. The "murders" during TPS. Firstly he killed the Merriff in self defence. with Felicity he simply had no other choice, he even considered copying Felicity's program but there simply wasnt enough time. He had no choice. As for the scientists, as playing as Wilhelm myself, he stated that the decision to killed all of the on the chance of them being a traitor was smart move. Jack couldnt take the chance and lacked the time to debate it. Jack however expressed a thrill after the kills but maybe he liked the adrenaline rush it gave him, who doesnt in the BL universe.

4. The betrayal, if I was jack id be pissed to. I created a wonder weapon just to have it taken away from me by a backstabbing load of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Yeah I think Jack had the right to be pissed. And it wasnt just jack who felt that way. As I played as Wilhem even he was pissed and once upon reaching the vault, a smug Roland said tauntingly, so how much are you getting paid for this huh wilhelm. Wilhelm simply responded what im going to do to you, im doing for free.

5. Oppurtunity. After playing TPS it's obvious Jack decided you know what screw those vault hunters, im taking credit for that ♥♥♥♥, ♥♥♥♥ em. So to me it was an obvious attempt to get back at the 1st gen VH's.

6. Harold Tassiter's murder. Really this guy. He deserved it. he was a rude prick and i would of kocked his teeth out myself. He was constantly insulting his staff and even the VH's hired by jack. He was a self righeious bully with the ego the size of a space station (lol). As playing as wilhelm he was constantly calling him stupid, a button pressing automaton who doesnt know anything. Wilhem even mumbled under his breath, someone pay me a nickle to kill this guy..I though jack did a justice here, he strangled a guy who loved to run his mouth. perfect irony.

Jack seemed to me like a decent dude, just wanting to make a difference in the world. People didnt see that and personally if Moxxi, Roland and Lilth hadnt of tired to kill him then Jack wouldnt of made it his personal mission to ♥♥♥♥ them up and everything they stood for. Im also kinda glad wilhelm also nearly killed the original vault hunters since wilhelm expressed that he took the attempt on his life personally in TPS. Jack has his demons like everyone else does, but to say hes evil?. NO. Hes just a pissed guy who worked his ass off, had to contain his daughter, lost his wife, had a crap upbrining who had a complete rude jackoff for a boss and was bullied and backstabbed repeatidly thoughout his life.

[SlackerBoe]

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

Firstly I think people slate Jack meremly out of dislike for him, after playing TPS, I really struggled to see why people seemed to think he was "evil" and always was.

I personally think Jack is and always was evil and that's what makes him awesome. I don't dislike him at all!

[trukr]

Warning, long read LOL

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

Firstly I think people slate Jack meremly out of dislike for him, after playing TPS, I really struggled to see why people seemed to think he was "evil" and always was. Firstly lets go through his past.

No, purely on his actions.

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

1. Angel, according to what was stated in BL2, Angel struggling to control his power killed her monther and Jacks wife. Jack was left with no choice but to seperate her from socierty so she couldnt harm anyone else again. Some peopel call it imprisoment, but maybe Jack saw it as a better alternative to completely disowning her and banishing her. It is revaled during the quest in TPS where you ask him the question regarding his wife, family etc, he simply replied next question, clearly proving that it effected Jack, that Jack loved both his wife and daughter and that the topic was painful for him to want to discuss. Maybe Jack decided to contain Angel to keep her by her side, helping him while keeping her power in check abd giving her a purpose. Jack loves Angel and he alwasy says he does. Angel also never talks to Jack as if she fears or or dislikes him. In BL2 she helps the Vault Hunters kill her because she doesnt like the path her father took after TPS.

No, according to Jack. Do you know what Angel's Siren power was? Maybe he is just a bit ashamed of himself is why he won't talk about it, could be HE killed his wife to keep Angel's powers for himself. But let's go your way, while she learned to control her power? So what happened once she grew up and was in control, oh imprisonment. Remember when Jack caught her helping, yes that sounded like agony she felt to me. She ask you to kill her to end what, a life of servitude, dependent on eridium for life itself, oh yes loving father there huh?

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

2. Manipulating the VH to get the EOTD. Nothing wrong with that. A bullied Hyperion scientist saw the oppurtinity to make something for himself. He took it. Anyone else would have.

He did not do it for EOTD, he did it to make eridium go from rare to common so he could get rich, the eye was something he thought of after the fact. No, not everyone would, some have the guts to do it and not trick others to do it for them.

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

3. The "murders" during TPS. Firstly he killed the Merriff in self defence. with Felicity he simply had no other choice, he even considered copying Felicity's program but there simply wasnt enough time. He had no choice. As for the scientists, as playing as Wilhelm myself, he stated that the decision to killed all of the on the chance of them being a traitor was smart move. Jack couldnt take the chance and lacked the time to debate it. Jack however expressed a thrill after the kills but maybe he liked the adrenaline rush it gave him, who doesnt in the BL universe.

The Meriff deserved it, but self defence? His gun was jammed so shooting him repeatedly was not just necessary. Felicity he has choices, he could have asked her to occupy the contructor for a day or two and then remove her and then copy, but he said to wipe all not useful for the task at hand. The scientist he spaced, uh, hello? Rolland and Lilith were there and could have watched them, they were in an airlock, what danger was there. Unneeded killing of people who had helped him a lot.

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

4. The betrayal, if I was jack id be pissed to. I created a wonder weapon just to have it taken away from me by a backstabbing load of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Yeah I think Jack had the right to be pissed. And it wasnt just jack who felt that way. As I played as Wilhem even he was pissed and once upon reaching the vault, a smug Roland said tauntingly, so how much are you getting paid for this huh wilhelm. Wilhelm simply responded what im going to do to you, im doing for free.

He created a massive weapon on what, a research and observation station where he was to ONLY observe Pandora. Wilhelm is a bad person as well, so is Nisha so him being angry means little to nothing.

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

5. Oppurtunity. After playing TPS it's obvious Jack decided you know what screw those vault hunters, im taking credit for that ♥♥♥♥, ♥♥♥♥ em. So to me it was an obvious attempt to get back at the 1st gen VH's.

He started that ball rolling by lying to the Vault Hunters through Angel.

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

6. Harold Tassiter's murder. Really this guy. He deserved it. he was a rude prick and i would of kocked his teeth out myself. He was constantly insulting his staff and even the VH's hired by jack. He was a self righeious bully with the ego the size of a space station (lol). As playing as wilhelm he was constantly calling him stupid, a button pressing automaton who doesnt know anything. Wilhem even mumbled under his breath, someone pay me a nickle to kill this guy..I though jack did a justice here, he strangled a guy who loved to run his mouth. perfect irony.

Wait, people deserve to die because they are rude? Remember, Tassiter HAD the H code and he was not trying to kill Jack, only fire him.

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

Jack seemed to me like a decent dude, just wanting to make a difference in the world. People didnt see that and personally if Moxxi, Roland and Lilth hadnt of tired to kill him then Jack wouldnt of made it his personal mission to ♥♥♥♥ them up and everything they stood for. Im also kinda glad wilhelm also nearly killed the original vault hunters since wilhelm expressed that he took the attempt on his life personally in TPS. Jack has his demons like everyone else does, but to say hes evil?. NO. Hes just a pissed guy who worked his ass off, had to contain his daughter, lost his wife, had a crap upbrining who had a complete rude jackoff for a boss and was bullied and backstabbed repeatidly thoughout his life.

Jack wanted to get rich. Even the save the moon thing would never happened had he not weaponized a civilian space station he would have not need to get the station back.

Keep in mind Jack poisoned Wilhelm or the Vault Hunters would likely have died.

No, Jack was a conniving back stabbing coward and having a jerk for a boss is not a reason to murder your boss.

He paid bandits to kill his grand mother, yes I am sure she was bad to him but vengeance killing is never right.

[Kantoor]

Just my humble opinions.
When angel... spoilers, went down in BL2, Jack's yell didnt really sound like a villian when his superultramegawepaon is destroyed. it somewhat sounded fatherly, like he might, just might acutally care for his daughter.
However, I hate how TPS just sweeped what he did to angel under the rug. And yes, it did happen before TPS, as you can hear afew lines from Angel in one of the sidequests. it's mainly just a cameo. plus jack said to her mother. if it happened after TPS, that would mean she killed Nisha, which she obviously didnt. They absolutely pretend it never happen. They don't mention it, ever. An explanation would be nice.

[KidsLoveSatan]

Originally posted by KV-Fourtress:

Jack seemed to me like a decent dude

Yeah, he only vented people who helped him into space, on the other hand had he been rude and insulting he'd have to be murdered.