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Willhelm shines at simply sponging damage (rather than Athenas frontal immunity), getting free second winds from his (very automatised) action skill and regenerating ammo if you'll get needed cap-stone skill.
Then again, she's my main.
I'm planning on TVHM this game then UVHM Borderlands 2. I thought if I picked Athena it be a good (ugh hope I'm using this phrase right) "segway" to Maya.
would Wilhelm be a good segway to Maya once I finish TVHM with him?
Willhelm, for me, was Brawn Salvador successor - dishing damage on run, thumping fist, powerfull ammo/health (shield) regen and strong resistances.
If you want go for UVH Maya after TVH PS character i'd say take Athena. Maelstorm power and Phalanx regeneration(s) may play bad joke however - devastating damage and reliable toughness are harder to come by in BL2s UVH than in PS TVH-UVH.
but willhelm is better at shooting.
but, as far as skill goes. same as maya phaselocking, aurelia freezes. same as you had singularity pull. each time it swaps enemy there is 35% chance of singularity and so on. and ice kind of acts like slag here, where aurelia more or less has 100% freezing chance in matter of minutes
i cannot even start to imagine how you connected athena and maya. and those 2 are by far my most played characters.
'As ice' cd/length sets Au far enough from Maya. While they may get similar acting augments long-cd skills feel very different from short ones.
- extreme damage done by athena is melee. maya sucks at melee.
- maya skills are crowd control based, athena is defensive push into enemy
and what kind of invulnerability for maya? kinetic refection? way more similar to Aurelias whiteout
but if you mean firerate burst on phaselock. i fail to see it remotely similar to storm weaving. firerate is basically key factor in whole Borderlands. you can as well say claptrap plays as maya. he has healing skills and extreme firerates
and just FYI, cooldown rate for aurelia is as fast as mayas. ever tried short summer? i''m having hard time ending with less that 150 stacks after skill end. that is 100-150% cooldown rate
this build http://thepresequel.com/Aurelia/5551000005005151015155012120051500000 plays more or less exactly like maya (except maya is more fun, since it has shortcommings, while aurelia is too op due to practically no loopholes). and yes i ignored sniper (using Dva cryo T4s-R and Fridgia in order to really take advantage of Culling the herd and Short summer) and healing. 3DD1.E and Reogenerator do more than it is needed, coz your skill is practically keeping everything frozen.
Storm tree has enough elemental analogies with Cata to make its likeness.
In PS (even on UVH) 'Extreme' damage is just something lil above average - everything evaporates in seconds by semifocused build and green-blues. On paper freezing evrything by lengthy Action may seem like Phaselocking over and over, but in transition from PSs TVH to BL2s UVH less 'absolute' powerhose should be better. Aurelia just dont has any those periods of vulnerability/ineffective damage.
ts not about mirroring much while dragging in all big guns possible, but more like something that plays and feels similary.
on paper? you mean like... 3000+ hours on B2 mostly played as maya and 2 fully leveled up aurelias and 5 athenas only gets me so much that i can judge on paper?
if you look at Converge... Polar Vortex is 1 by 1 same. can't for the love of god figure out how it would be connected to athena, same goes for rest of the skills
Accelerate=Only the best
Helios=Fragment rain
Converge=Polar Vortex
Ruin=default cryo effect+Frostbite
Blight Phoenix is very similar to Whiteout. ar least as I noticed, it also deals cryo damage and slows opponents
Kinetic reflection is much more like Whiteout then 90 degree perfect shield
both also have extremely short cooldown rate
most skills in aurelias middle tree are crowd control and go figure, maya is too. now, which skill would be crowd control based for athena? maya/aurelia is about controlling the playfield, athena is about picking them one by one
also, since you mentioned firerate as similarity. Storm Weaving is not skill related, you can do it full time while maya has firerate boost on Phaselock. hell, as part of a challenge i played athena without one single shield use from 1-70 and truthfully i even started preferring playing it like that. gives more challenge
as far as being op, that was my original statement why aurelia is not as fun as maya or athena. but, this is not even remotely connected to plays similar
I dont say "ye see wrong i'm seeing right" though. Just from different angles. Well, Maya is my second played in 1.5K BL2s span.
don't get me wrong. i'm more interested in how the ♥♥♥♥ could i play crowd control with athena (my favourite character). crowd control is most interesting way to play BL, if only developers wouldn't make aurelia so op. either i'm missing something for athena... or.... could you please explain any relation between athena and crowd control? and i mean controling the playfield, just as maya does.
ok, here you got me currious. how do you mean "how cryo works" and connected to mayas skills. here is my interpretation
- Phaselock locks enemy in place so he cannot move, cryo... same
- Ruin slags enemy for additional damage, which is again default cryo effect
- Converge invokes singularity in phaselock space in order to stun and control enemies, Polar Vortex and Winter's fury does exactly the same
- Converge passes phaselock effect to another enemy if enemy dies, Cold as Ice does the same and adds a bit more control
- Ruin and Helios add AoE elemental damage at phaselock position, which exactly translates into Fragment rain
- Phaselock boosts damage to locked enemy (and firerate), and while this is cryo effect by default you can still add Frostbyte (doesn't boost firerate though, thanks god... like aurelia is not op already)
as far as always up goes...
maya has practically always up skill. she caps cooldown at 8sec (so, many people who use Legendary Siren never even realized that Quicken has no effect in that case. same goes for Quicken which by default caps it). aurelia if you ignore snipers and use weapons with firerate above 8 will cap about the same due to high stock count on Short Summer. but, if you opt for sniper skills and snipers, then yea... aurelia is wastly different and nothing like maya (which is why i posted my build). aurelia with snipers and aurelia with fast firerate have absoletely no common point in how you play.
By 'how Cryo works' i ment that cryo isn't 'just' paralyzer that increase incoming damage. While lock with singularity and slag is 'that very same', any char with only Fridgia will do nearly as much as Phaselock in its best. Like said bullets may fly fast and with some prefix/skills even faster, theyll be as far from Beams 'speed' as all Phaselocks stun/slag is from freezing.
It is 'same' but homing cryo cloud with lengthy duration makes it feel so much different.
Or perhaps its just the way Sequence played for me... Tried it several times, but usually i just wipe all chunk at once and 'seek new target' turns into 'adding remaining active time to CD'.
By 'Allways-on' i ment its most of time enough to clear sizeable area on single activation and cool down while on move to next one.
With Maya, if foes were spread enough to not get sucked in singularity i either had to wait for CD or finish unslagged enemies during CD if 8 sec (guh, thought it was 6.7(? not remember exactly) all this time...) might be enough. When i tried to get them 'fast' during CD it felt like useless race against time to prove desission to engage was any good... Usually it was better to conserve ammo, reload guns (throw some nades) and wait 1-2 sec more for CD and then wipe the rest.
Sidequestion - do you use Life tap? Its horribly annoying when it spams 'knife sharpening' sound when mixed with blight phoenix ticks or just any fast-rate damage. Can it be prevented somehow?
I run Kittens and they top health nicely even when Sweet or Elated fall short but i dont really like depend on Moxxy weapons even occasionally.
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Dont think it can be proper 'Controll' build. More like subproduct of how i felt playing PS and BL in general.
I went as usuall in Action skill enchancers and some durability. Then - nonmelee cause i've kinda oversaturated with Brick, Krieg and Zero melee play. Skipped most stack-dependat skills cause i dont like stack play. And i wasnt that fond of grenades in PS with allmost every foe flipping around like a rabbid moth, so i ended with hyperion Singularity.
http://thepresequel.com/Athena/0550141005100000000000415010010000
Singularity sucks enemy in a bunch, Glory Taunt f--- up AI and they dont hop all over the screen or take cover so eagerly and then pummeling finished with Rage of conductor godess felt like reversed ruin/helios into chain-wreck.
At this point positioning and tempo felt surprisingly similar - go in, clear segment, recharge.
Well, CD is slightly too long even though i was sticking to CD reduction mod and frost aint as
'mandatory' in PS as slag in BL2 so i could continue beatings while big-gun was cooling.
Didnt take her to late-late leveling. Had enough of 'fun time' grinding xp from 50 to 70 on 2 chars allready... Guess it'll fall down to overlydurable dps machine later on (prity much like any other PS char), but OP asked about TVH and in those Athena-Maya is kept in bounds more or less. Au-Maya starts wax-house vandalizm at early tens.