So why is The Pre-Sequel supposed to be worse than BL2?

[Dutczar]

Just made this discussion because I'm not sure why most people think that, and also am worried that the fact people dislike TPS might make Gearbox disregard the many positive changes it brought, like how Dark Souls 3 showed a ♥♥♥♥ you finger to Dark Souls 2 because of it having a bad reputation and ended up having some flaws that totally could've been avoided had the devs tried to not ignore DS2. I don't want BL3 to have slag instead of Cryo, or have the weapon balancing of BL2 instead of TPS (though from what I heard and a bit of what I played, BL1 does it even better. I just can't get through it though, the sidequests in 1 are bland and the hitboxes seem off, as well as a few technical issues)

Cons: Less content (mostly since people seemed to hate it)
Some people don't like space things, vacuum, low-grav, etc. Personally, I don't mind low-grav, especially because of OZ kit bonuses you can get with it, though just having them passively would be fine. I don't really like vacuum, not because of it making it hard, but because it's pointless. I barely ever run out of it, and if I do, I lose a whooping 1 hp per second. It's just pointless.
Most of the enemies have shields, and fire doesn't work in vacuum, so shock is pretty much the way to go. In BL2, it was a nice generalist element; you quickly take off shields but don't really do much to the enemies later on. Here, a ton of enemies just have a majority of health in shock, and as no health types have a resistance to it, there's no reason not to just plow through with it.
NPC and the atmosphere not being Pandoran. Honestly I understand that since Pickle is irritating after a while, and almost the whole story is about Dahl and barely any bandits. There is not enough funny crazy people in TPS.
Too easy? (I mention this later)
(feel free to tell me what people might hate because there's probably more, otherwise people wouldn't think it's that much worse than BL2, right?)

Pros: The loot system is better than 2, you don't need a new weapon every 3-4 levels.
The raid boss, might be a copy-paste of the final boss and have too little health, but doesn't spam you with cheap unavoidable attacks and rewards attention and being careful, having patterns, tells, etc. Same with EOS, or that one Dahl airship boss I forgot the name of.
Cryo is better than slag imo. Instead of being a 3x multiplier of dmg taken, Cryo increases melee, explosive and critical hits. For Explosive and melee this effectively means you get "Effective vs X" dmg bonus on most enemies at the cost of switching between weapons, which is neat imo, and the critical bonus is just rewarding. The fact you can instantly lock down an enemy is the only issue as it's ridiculous, a slow down would be enough.
The game is easy, but difficulty in BL2 at times was mostly just wasting time farming legendaries. And if you want a challenge just to see how OP you can get, there is an arena in the Claptastic Voyage that is hard as balls last time I checked.
The characters are more balanced between each other while all being really powerful (mostly because of requiring 4 less points to reach the capstone skill of the tree), and not because of what is basically an exploit like Salvador's Grog Nozzle merging or Zero's Bore one shotting Hyperius, which is an improvement over BL2 imo. As I mentioned above, if you don't like being OP though, you can still try the arena, or avoid farming to make things harder. The only "problem" is they are sometimes more gimmicker, there's way more skill trees based solely on stacks and specific mechanics, but I think it's a better way of doing it than "This skill tree overall just increases your damage and nothing else". I've only played a bit of Athena and Nisha, and only reached UVHM with Claptrap, but so far there hasn't been a skill tree I don't intend on making a seperate playthrough about.
The DLC was fantastic, but to be honest I'm mostly talking about the core-game mechanics here.
The grinder is pretty good in my opinion, it has a luck factor while narrowing down what results you can get so it's less of a grindfest while still not jsut giving you what you want.
I prefer the Oz kits over Relics, mostly because instead of just being a flat buff these can actually affect gameplay, mostly the ones affecting abilites in midair. I don't really want them to return in BL3, I just want the relics to be more interesting.
You don't have to stop and do sidequests in TPS while doing a new game since with a little bit of more difficulty you can just straight up do the story. Honestly it just feels like I can reach higher levels on new characters faster and I feel encouraged to actually try a playthrough with a focus on a new skill tree.

[Dr.WizBiz]

i am enlightend

[Dutczar]

Please don't be sarcastic, I'm fine if most people don't like it and there are reasons to it I don't get.

[MelodramaticPeople]

I personally felt the low gravity took control away from me during combat. I like cryo and lazer weapons and would like them to return.I liked the colour scheme for Hyperion weapons kinda being halfway between BL1 and BL2 but would have liked if they changed the look of gun parts to look more like BL1 guns.Also many of the legendaries were basically copy and paste from BL2.

[Agarillobob]

TPS has balance issues like high level gaps between missions
have you played UVHM? Its almost impossibel to level in there

it came out as a fullprice game while running on more the less same engine as BL2 with only minor improvements

the DLC´s are a mess only having 1 real story DLC (but its a darn good one)

a lot of legendaries are outright NOT farmable

and its really easy compared to BL2 especially cryo is nice but making this game literally free

theres a lot of good stuff as well but thats probably the main reasons people decided this game is worse then BL2, and just from looking at steam player charts the majority of people prefer BL2

[Garble]

My reasons for preferring BL2 over TPS are:
1. The gravity and oxygen systems slowed the pace of the game for me when compared to BL2. Mostly in feel.
2. I didn't feel like the writing was as strong as much of the writing in BL2. There were for sure some strong/funny stuff in TPS but there just happens to be more in BL2.
3. I personally prefer the playable characters in BL2 over TPS. I liked Athena and Claptrap but still prefer Zer0 and Axton (yeah, I know they're not really comparable, leave me alone)
4. Better DLC's. Not that TPS's are bad, just BL2's are better.
5. The badass token system, again, in the same engine, but no carry over. Honestly this is a nitpicky thing and really doesn't matter but it's in the same engine using the same system so why couldn't it just use our Badass ranks from BL2? I'm sure there's a reason but, eh. Me nitpicking, doesn't actually matter. Would have been nice though...


But for real, there are a couple really cool ideas that I loved in TPS that I hope do continue on into BL3. Cryo was cool and the grinder is a good idea. The lazers were neat as well. I agree that Oz kits were cool but I'd prefer that they don't return. I did feel the skill trees were set up a bit better than BL2's. I mean there's plenty of reasons to like TPS but I think for most people, BL2 has more reasons.

[Zen_Disaster]

Yoikes that's a lotta text :P I like them both & trust GBX knows TPS' many strengths better than anyone - I think we'll probably see most of the TPS gameplay updates in BL3

[chaosbringer42]

Cons :
TPS had worse writing than BL2
More annoying voice acting than BL2
Much worse pacing than BL2 (not enough quests to stay at level of the mainline without doing half the sidequests)
The game wasnt finished
Only 1 real DLC story
UVHM is a bit too easy
"Raid" bosses can be farmed solo underlevel with white gear

Pros :
UVHM is more "balanced" than in BL2 (You dont need to find a super legendary set or glitch the game to play effectively)
Butt smash!
Jump pads!
Class skill trees are alot more balanced (no Sals, the closest thing is still OP, but not that bad)
1 great DLC story (not as good as Tiny Tinas Assault on Dragons Keep, but still great)

Edit : Also Agarillobob, almost all legendaries CAN be farmed after an update quite a bit back (2 years ago I think?), they were added to the "raid" bosses and the end boss drop tables.

[Poomanchu]

My biggest gripe is the characters. I'm not talking about the accents but the way they were written. The npc's talk so damn much while saying next to nothing and that nothing isn't really humorous imo. I don't know what 2k Austrailia's limitations were while making the base game but the Claptrap DLC is my favorite dlc in the franchise. So where was this creativity during the base game?

The playable characters are really good. The cryo weapons are very fun. The double jump and butt slam are great for staying in the fight. Reloading? Butt slam. Surrounded by too many enemies? Double jump away. I do wish the player character moved a little faster while in a vacuum.

The mission design is terrible imo. The main story mission with Pickle is a perfect example. You meet him. Fight your way through. You have to walk up to the bridge in order to trigger an in game event. Go to the control panel which fails. Drop down to the me thane switch, which fails. Run to the other side of the map to turn it on. Run to another part of the map to switch the position of the tubes. Run back to the me thane switch to get the flow going and then you can cross the lava. It's just not interesting. I would have made a badass jump pad with pickle. So many story missions play out this way and on repeat playthroughs it turns into a chore because you have to sit there listening to the npc's drone on and on while waiting for the objective marker.

Side missions weren't much better imo. The whole franchise could do better at side missions but the pre sequel missions were terrible. The first open area you get to has a boring race and if you fail that race you have to listen to the whole thing again before even trying again. The teenage girl who wants you to set up posters and burn rival posters talks the entire. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. time. I refuse to ever do that mission again. Then you have the, collect 50 white weapons, mission that always ends up with them being stolen which drags it out even longer. Really? Did I write this mission? I'm not a good creative writer so that's the type of mission I would come up with.

I see this as a problem for several reasons. It's the first open area you get to, besides the tutorial map with Janey. As a new player you want to run around shooting enemies with your fancy new cryo/laser weapons and butt slam some dudes. "NO!" says the man at the creative writing desk. "You must drive these cardboard vehicles that don't have suspension while filling your inventory with useless weapons instead!". That's pumping brakes on the fun factor of this game imo.

There's more that I find annoying or bad but this post is already longer then I thought it would be. Overall I would recommend a playthrough if you can get it and the claptrap dlc on sale. The new combat mechanics and playable characters are pretty awesome. Just go farm and explore instead of doing side quests, until you get to the Hub of Heroism. That place is fun.

[chaosbringer42]

Originally posted by Poomanchu:

My biggest gripe is the characters. I'm not talking about the accents but the way they were written. The npc's talk so damn much while saying next to nothing and that nothing isn't really humorous imo. I don't know what 2k Austrailia's limitations were while making the base game but the Claptrap DLC is my favorite dlc in the franchise. So where was this creativity during the base game?

The playable characters are really good. The cryo weapons are very fun. The double jump and butt slam are great for staying in the fight. Reloading? Butt slam. Surrounded by too many enemies? Double jump away. I do wish the player character moved a little faster while in a vacuum.

The mission design is terrible imo. The main story mission with Pickle is a perfect example. You meet him. Fight your way through. You have to walk up to the bridge in order to trigger an in game event. Go to the control panel which fails. Drop down to the me thane switch, which fails. Run to the other side of the map to turn it on. Run to another part of the map to switch the position of the tubes. Run back to the me thane switch to get the flow going and then you can cross the lava. It's just not interesting. I would have made a badass jump pad with pickle. So many story missions play out this way and on repeat playthroughs it turns into a chore because you have to sit there listening to the npc's drone on and on while waiting for the objective marker.

Side missions weren't much better imo. The whole franchise could do better at side missions but the pre sequel missions were terrible. The first open area you get to has a boring race and if you fail that race you have to listen to the whole thing again before even trying again. The teenage girl who wants you to set up posters and burn rival posters talks the entire. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. time. I refuse to ever do that mission again. Then you have the, collect 50 white weapons, mission that always ends up with them being stolen which drags it out even longer. Really? Did I write this mission? I'm not a good creative writer so that's the type of mission I would come up with.

I see this as a problem for several reasons. It's the first open area you get to, besides the tutorial map with Janey. As a new player you want to run around shooting enemies with your fancy new cryo/laser weapons and butt slam some dudes. "NO!" says the man at the creative writing desk. "You must drive these cardboard vehicles that don't have suspension while filling your inventory with useless weapons instead!". That's pumping brakes on the fun factor of this game imo.

There's more that I find annoying or bad but this post is already longer then I thought it would be. Overall I would recommend a playthrough if you can get it and the claptrap dlc on sale. The new combat mechanics and playable characters are pretty awesome. Just go farm and explore instead of doing side quests, until you get to the Hub of Heroism. That place is fun.

The DLC was made by the devs who made BL2, 2kAus already got shut down by that point. Thats why its so much better than the main game.

[Poomanchu]

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

Originally posted by Poomanchu:

My biggest gripe is the characters. I'm not talking about the accents but the way they were written. The npc's talk so damn much while saying next to nothing and that nothing isn't really humorous imo. I don't know what 2k Austrailia's limitations were while making the base game but the Claptrap DLC is my favorite dlc in the franchise. So where was this creativity during the base game?

The playable characters are really good. The cryo weapons are very fun. The double jump and butt slam are great for staying in the fight. Reloading? Butt slam. Surrounded by too many enemies? Double jump away. I do wish the player character moved a little faster while in a vacuum.

The mission design is terrible imo. The main story mission with Pickle is a perfect example. You meet him. Fight your way through. You have to walk up to the bridge in order to trigger an in game event. Go to the control panel which fails. Drop down to the me thane switch, which fails. Run to the other side of the map to turn it on. Run to another part of the map to switch the position of the tubes. Run back to the me thane switch to get the flow going and then you can cross the lava. It's just not interesting. I would have made a badass jump pad with pickle. So many story missions play out this way and on repeat playthroughs it turns into a chore because you have to sit there listening to the npc's drone on and on while waiting for the objective marker.

Side missions weren't much better imo. The whole franchise could do better at side missions but the pre sequel missions were terrible. The first open area you get to has a boring race and if you fail that race you have to listen to the whole thing again before even trying again. The teenage girl who wants you to set up posters and burn rival posters talks the entire. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. time. I refuse to ever do that mission again. Then you have the, collect 50 white weapons, mission that always ends up with them being stolen which drags it out even longer. Really? Did I write this mission? I'm not a good creative writer so that's the type of mission I would come up with.

I see this as a problem for several reasons. It's the first open area you get to, besides the tutorial map with Janey. As a new player you want to run around shooting enemies with your fancy new cryo/laser weapons and butt slam some dudes. "NO!" says the man at the creative writing desk. "You must drive these cardboard vehicles that don't have suspension while filling your inventory with useless weapons instead!". That's pumping brakes on the fun factor of this game imo.

There's more that I find annoying or bad but this post is already longer then I thought it would be. Overall I would recommend a playthrough if you can get it and the claptrap dlc on sale. The new combat mechanics and playable characters are pretty awesome. Just go farm and explore instead of doing side quests, until you get to the Hub of Heroism. That place is fun.

The DLC was made by the devs who made BL2, 2kAus already got shut down by that point. Thats why its so much better than the main game.

That makes sense. Thanks for the explination!

[SlackerBoe]

Originally posted by chaosbringer42:

Cons :
TPS had worse writing than BL2
More annoying voice acting than BL2
Much worse pacing than BL2 (not enough quests to stay at level of the mainline without doing half the sidequests)
The game wasnt finished
Only 1 real DLC story
UVHM is a bit too easy
"Raid" bosses can be farmed solo underlevel with white gear

Pros :
UVHM is more "balanced" than in BL2 (You dont need to find a super legendary set or glitch the game to play effectively)
Butt smash!
Jump pads!
Class skill trees are alot more balanced (no Sals, the closest thing is still OP, but not that bad)
1 great DLC story (not as good as Tiny Tinas Assault on Dragons Keep, but still great)

Edit : Also Agarillobob, almost all legendaries CAN be farmed after an update quite a bit back (2 years ago I think?), they were added to the "raid" bosses and the end boss drop tables.

I just want to correct the end. The update you were talking about made most mini-bosses who already had a legendary drop assign, respawn. Only zarpedon’s table (whom still doesn’t respawn) was added to end boss.

No weapons without a source were given a source

[solidfact42]

Starting off, I personally loved the pre-sequel, but I liked Borderlands 2 more. On the one hand, I liked the additional dialogue from the pre-sequel and the fact that there was a great deal more character specific comments which added to the replay value. Weapons were fun, I liked cryo more than slag as well and the laser weapons, while a little tricky to use at times, were still fun.

My only real frustration with the pre-sequel was its limited level looks and equally limited DLC adventures. Borderlands 2 has a wide variety of landscapes and environments to explore which the pre-sequel seems lacking in (although helios space station was a nice change from the endless barren rock formations). There was also the fact that only one DLC adventure exists. There was so much potential to do more with the assets, the game play, and the characters but it just didn't happen. I personally would have liked to see them use the low-grav/no oxygen mechanic for a few underwater sections in another DLC given that they showed a tiny bit how it could be used in the "think tank" section of Claptastic Voyage. Borderlands 2 scores over pre-sequel when it comes to DLC for obvious reasons.

In all, neither is a perfect game, but both are really damn good.

[The Shaver]

-Lackluster storyline
-Lack of good Sidequests (So far i´ve only encountered Escort missions and Run there missions)
-Lack of Content
-Lack of Endgame
-Exclusevly annoying enemys (Every single enemy of the Frost Legion in particular)
-Lack of farmable Bosses
-A DEV Studio disconnected from the Playerbase
-Bad Map Design

With Borderlands 2, i had no second though of purchasing DLC´s.
With this Game, i ask myself what for?
Why buy a Levelcap extension, when there is NOTHING in terms of (Endgame) Content to do?
So i can run around, fighting frustrating enemys that dont drop anything i could possibly ever need?
I sincerely hope that 2k Australia does not get to touch and ruin the next entry of the Franchise.
Sadly TPS stomped my hopes for the next game into the ground.
Even the though of Gearbox looking at the Changes that 2k Australia applyed and NOT asking them if they ever actually played the game is just astonishing.

[Draug]

I think the main issue for TPS is that it lacks its own identity. For all the new and changed stuff they did, it still felt like I was playing some fan's total overhaul mod of BL2.

[Frogged]

No replay value.