Crossbows just not worth it?

[MΛRCUS HΞLIUS]

So Vlandian Crossbowmen and all the other crossbow units in the game suffer from the same problem:
Low ammunition, slow reload and pretty useless in melee even if they have shields.
It seems always better to just go for dedicated archers, ether imperial or Battanian.
Obviously if I am Vlandia or Imperial it will be difficult to get Fian Champions until you have conquered some Battanian Fiefs.

If Crossbows had 30% more ammo I feel like they would be on par with archers.

[Urmel]

not enough ammunation?
what you say about throwing units with 3 axes or 5 jawelin ?

i mostly use them for garrison.
and you can use them like a shild-infantry in your meele-group and use mostly 2h axe or menavlion units.

[Karna5]

Originally posted by Urmel:

not enough ammunation?
what you say about throwing units with 3 axes or 5 jawelin ?

i mostly use them for garrison.
and you can use them like a shild-infantry in your meele-group and use mostly 2h axe or menavlion units.

You're right they make great shield wall partners for the bow archers. I mix of crossbow/shield with bow in shield wall formation seems to have great survival ability (for infantry).

As for javelin NPCs, I often like to play with little or no armor (because I like the risk of death in combat), and the javelin cavalry are one of the leading causes of death to me *laughs* Javelins can hit so hard! :)

One of my companions (a daughter who inherited a few generations of skills) has over 300 javelin skill, and in arena combat she sometimes one-shot kills me, haha.

But I agree, I don't find crossbowmen completely useless. They're more of a niche troop, great for shield walls and garrisons.

I used to think the veteran sword sisters (crossbow cavalry) were too weak because they used to die the most of my troops. But that was back when I used to use F1+F3 (charge). Ever since I switched to F1+F4, the veteran sword sisters do quite well in open field combat.

[MΛRCUS HΞLIUS]

Thrown weapons are just a bonus, the real power of the unit isn't throwing a few axes.

A dedicated ranged unit is meant to contribute for almost an entire battle. But Crossbows run out of ammo and you are left with no ranged damage and a mediocre melee unit.

Crossbows or Bows are always going to be good for siege defence, since they get infinite ammo.

[Karna5]

Marcus, I didn't mention this earlier as it sounds like you don't use mods, and your complaint is a fair one for the vanilla game.

However, if the lack of ammunition is the only thing keeping you from liking some of your troops, there are mods which give your party infinite ammo. For instance, "Bannerlord Cheats v3.0.3" on Nexus has an option for infinite ammo.

It doesn't fix your complaint with regard to game balance or design, but it's an option for fixing your gameplay.

[Ardariel]

i see this guy on other forum doing pretty much the same - trying to provoke flame war.

Curious when steam start to ban clown farmers?

[Raymond]

they have infinite ammo during siege as defenders, so I always keep a bunch of them to defend my fiefs All in all, it doesn't really matter whatever it is vladian crossbowmen, fian champions or peasant archers, any units without a horse are just cannon fodders to distract enemy units while the cavalry do 99.69% of the fighting.

[Fendelphi]

Fian Champions are expensive and overall harder to recruit compared to town units. Vlandian Crossbows have decent durability and fairly accurate(generally more accurate per shot than Fian Champions, simply due to how crossbows work when tracking a fast moving target like cavalry).
By the time they run out of ammo, you should be calling for an all-out charge anyway.

Unless you are telling me that you have just been firing at the enemy shield walls for the last 2 minutes?

[The Mau Corporation]

Its balanced. Everything depends on how its used.

xbow does way more dmg early on and shoots further, so less ammo.
I'm pretty sure Xbow starts with more penetration.
top tier xbowmen are almost infantry equivalent with shields. In shieldwall they will perform well. They are indispensible as auxillary shieldwalls to protect main shieldwall flanks, for example. OP concerns with this are unfounded. Archers get wrecked under certain conditions too, even fians.

perks add much to both xbow and thowing stacks (I have a mounted thrower that starts with huge amount of javelins; about 30) Also javelins do much more dmg, far earlier for cheaper and can function as ballistae eventually.

I dont know if you guys have seen a large xbow contingent in action before (say 2-300 with cav support) but its a 20sec wrecking ball. Same too with sturgian shieldwall that gets close.

[Galla]

Yeah Crossbows don't work very well in this game. They gave them far too little ammo (without more damage than archers) to be worth considering over archers. The only upside is that they have shields, which only matters once your guys run out of ammo anyway. Even then, you're better off with archers and infantry. Crossbows try to be something in between and it just doesn't work in game.

They worked in Warband because siege and heavy crossbows hit like trucks(and had more ammon than in Bannerlord), Vlandian crossbows just don't have anything going for them

[Samad Al-Hyade]

just use khergit horse archers

[wf1675]

Originally posted by MΛRCUS HΞLIUS:

So Vlandian Crossbowmen and all the other crossbow units in the game suffer from the same problem:
Low ammunition, slow reload and pretty useless in melee even if they have shields.
It seems always better to just go for dedicated archers, ether imperial or Battanian.
Obviously if I am Vlandia or Imperial it will be difficult to get Fian Champions until you have conquered some Battanian Fiefs.

If Crossbows had 30% more ammo I feel like they would be on par with archers.

crossbows IMO are for countering other archers because they have the best damage against unshielded infantry and have the longest range but they are more independent because they have shields to protect from arrows and cav so you can split your army in 2 to make sure they get a flank

[Sabaithal]

Don't crossbows have more piercing power? IE they can destroy shields faster than arrows, and do more damage to armored units?

I was also under the impression that certain crossbows have longer range, though I haven't tested this.

[UnBanNiriil]

In my experience, where I play mostly as a vlandian but I've also played a bit a sturgian and battanian (and used each time only my faction's troops), Crossbowmen are really good but maybe to be used differently than standard archers.

You need to put them on a good spot, with 2 groups of infantry in front of them, one on the left and one on the right. Crossbowmen especially with a good captain that has the right perks (wich I find better than the archers perks) are better, more range, feels like way more penetration / damage, and good equipment in general wich makes them able to fight much batter than most other archers in melee. Fians can be better than them in melee but usually they die too fast against my crossbowmen and cavalry.

Crossbowmen are especially good to kill other archers with their greater range and armored units wich can sometime resist arrows. By the time you're out of ammo the battle is always won.

[NMGSGaming]

Originally posted by Sabaithal:

Don't crossbows have more piercing power? IE they can destroy shields faster than arrows, and do more damage to armored units?

I was also under the impression that certain crossbows have longer range, though I haven't tested this.

Crossbows do more damage to shields, however they still won't get through them before the enemy is up close unless you have a lot of crossbows shooting at the same guy. Crossbows do hit harder than archers in general (exception Fians) and they do start shooting from a further range. However, because of their low bolt count, shooting at their max range is a waste. Currently I am playing as Vlandia and find it is best to hold fire with your crossbows until the enemy are at about 120m before getting them to shoot. As long as your infantry can keep the enemy distracted, your crossbows will be able to get quite a few kills and provide supporting fire for your infantry.

[Sir Snuffles]

crossbows arent suppose to be top tier. vlandia speciality is their cav units, missile units are vlandias weakness. each faction has a specialty and weakness

Battania ; best archers, worst cav
vlandia ; mid crossbows. best cav, mid inf
empire; best infantry, mid tier archers (short range)
Sturg: best skirmish inf (dudes with throwing axes etc) mid cav, poor archers
aserai: mid everything lol
kergit: best missile cav, poor inf