Ok, am I missing something with caravans?

[Sabaithal]

I hit my workshop limit, so I decided to start a caravan instead. Started it in a relatively safe and distant city from any wars. But just in case I paid extra to make sure they could handle a fight if it came to that (bands of 40-60 looters will rarely appear sometimes).

I read that it takes about a week for it to start generating a profit. Well its been a little over that I think (I haven't been keeping track. I'm getting barely 200 gold per day from it. My workshops are making more FFS. I'm pretty sure the wages from the caravan itself cost more than that, so I'm actually losing money.

Did I do something wrong, or are these things broken?

[Nolo Contendere]

引用自 Sabaithal：

Great, train companions. How exactly? Because after 300 ingame days so far, they rarely if ever get their skills up, and I've never once seen them level up.

You train them by having them use their skills. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Not a difficult concept.

You sure you played warband?

Edit: to be fair, warband didn’t have you train your “soft” skills by using them, so I can see confusion there. But the game literally tells you how to train each skill.

[Sabaithal]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You train them by having them use their skills. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Not a difficult concept.

You sure you played warband?

Edit: to be fair, warband didn’t have you train your “soft” skills by using them, so I can see confusion there. But the game literally tells you how to train each skill.

And how are they supposed to be training certain skills, such as trade or scouting, if I already have someone dedicated to those, who is effectively grabbing all the skill exp for them? Namely ME.

[Edmund Greyfox]

The major issue with "train them in the right skills" is that you can spend the whole game trying to train up just one person to be good in those skills and never actually start the caravan. It's not like the randomly generated companions ever come with the right mix of skills, and it takes forever to train them in the one's they are missing.

[Nolo Contendere]

引用自 Sabaithal：

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You train them by having them use their skills. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Not a difficult concept.

You sure you played warband?

Edit: to be fair, warband didn’t have you train your “soft” skills by using them, so I can see confusion there. But the game literally tells you how to train each skill.

And how are they supposed to be training certain skills, such as trade or scouting, if I already have someone dedicated to those, who is effectively grabbing all the skill exp for them? Namely ME.

You put them in charge of a party or caravan? Gosh, it’s almost as if you have to invest in your people and that those people are going to suck at their jobs for a bit until they learn.

[Edmund Greyfox]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

引用自 Sabaithal：

And how are they supposed to be training certain skills, such as trade or scouting, if I already have someone dedicated to those, who is effectively grabbing all the skill exp for them? Namely ME.

You put them in charge of a party or caravan? Gosh, it’s almost as if you have to invest in your people and that those people are going to suck at their jobs for a bit until they learn.

Gosh, it almost as if someone hasn't played the game enough to know what he's talking about. Go ahead, assign someone to lead a caravan, wait 10 game years, and then check to see that they haven't gained much in any of the skills they need. Or try and train one before you assign them, and see how long it takes you.

[Sabaithal]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You put them in charge of a party or caravan? Gosh, it’s almost as if you have to invest in your people and that those people are going to suck at their jobs for a bit until they learn.

So let me get this straight. The problem here is that a companion doesn't have the required skill to lead a caravan, yes?

So your solution...is a trial-by-fire approach by forcing them into a caravan anyway and hoping for the best, or rather hoping they don't get killed off well before learning anything (as mine did the first time)? Might be the only solution for all I know, but I wouldn't call this good design.

[Nolo Contendere]

引用自 Sabaithal：

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You put them in charge of a party or caravan? Gosh, it’s almost as if you have to invest in your people and that those people are going to suck at their jobs for a bit until they learn.

So let me get this straight. The problem here is that a companion doesn't have the required skill to lead a caravan, yes?

So your solution...is a trial-by-fire approach by forcing them into a caravan anyway and hoping for the best, or rather hoping they don't get killed off well before learning anything (as mine did the first time)? Might be the only solution for all I know, but I wouldn't call this good design.

First and foremost, I said put the right companions in charge. There are two ways to do this:

1) find someone who has some of the skills needed for the job and can learn the rest as time goes on, which to be fair is pretty easy to do (reminder: yes, the purpose of a caravan is to trade and make money, but its still a war party just like any other. Leadership, medicine, and steward are still useful even if you may WANT trading and scouting).

2) find someone with a lot of unspent free attribute and focus points and set them up to grow into the role that you need them to fill (admittedly, I only ever found 1 person who fit this description and I may have to see if one of my settings changes this). Of the two, I would wager that this has the better long term potential (but again, extremely rare. I've only ever found 1 companion who fit this bill).

Secondly, trial by fire is what the game does to you, hell I'd even argue that's the point of the game. The same AI that controls the caravans also controls all the other parties on the map.

引用自 Edmund Greyfox：

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You put them in charge of a party or caravan? Gosh, it’s almost as if you have to invest in your people and that those people are going to suck at their jobs for a bit until they learn.

Gosh, it almost as if someone hasn't played the game enough to know what he's talking about. Go ahead, assign someone to lead a caravan, wait 10 game years, and then check to see that they haven't gained much in any of the skills they need. Or try and train one before you assign them, and see how long it takes you.

The day the game gives us a chance to track how long we've had an association with companions is the day I'll entertain this. Yes, soft skills take forever to train, did you have a point? or are you trying (and failing) to be a smartass?

[Sabaithal]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

Secondly, trial by fire is what the game does to you, hell I'd even argue that's the point of the game. The same AI that controls the caravans also controls all the other parties on the map.

The problem with that is that any other aspect of the game directly involving me, the player, I have control over it. I'm the one playing, trading, fighting whatever. If I get into a bad situation its because I messed up.

With these caravans, I have no control over them at all. Whether or not they survive is purely RNG, there is nothing I can do to mitigate it. That's the problem.

[saintsfan36]

If your reply is a smart*** version of "train your companions for the job," then obviously you are the one that hasn't actually played this game. There is no "training" your companions to do anything. It takes forever to get one to make ONE level, much less make multiple levels that would be required to manipulate the direction of their skill set.

[Nolo Contendere]

引用自 Sabaithal：

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

Secondly, trial by fire is what the game does to you, hell I'd even argue that's the point of the game. The same AI that controls the caravans also controls all the other parties on the map.

The problem with that is that any other aspect of the game directly involving me, the player, I have control over it. I'm the one playing, trading, fighting whatever. If I get into a bad situation its because I messed up.

With these caravans, I have no control over them at all. Whether or not they survive is purely RNG, there is nothing I can do to mitigate it. That's the problem.

but you can mitigate it. by making educated decisions.

Would you put someone with absolutely zero leadership aptitude in charge of a party?
Would you have a surgeon with zero medical knowledge?

Yes, you will sometimes just get bad rolls of the dice. Yes, it's frustrating (trust me, as a horse archer seeing the enemies make shots on me as a moving target at ranges I wouldn't even dream to hit a stationary target with, I know your pain better than you might think).

that's part of the game. the attitude you should be looking at isn't "man, what the ♥♥♥♥?" (although, its perfectly fair to have that sometimes). it should be "yes, and?".

[Nolo Contendere]

引用自 saintsfan36：

If your reply is a smart*** version of "train your companions for the job," then obviously you are the one that hasn't actually played this game. There is no "training" your companions to do anything. It takes forever to get one to make ONE level, much less make multiple levels that would be required to manipulate the direction of their skill set.

the training is called "learning by doing", its actually one of the 3 learning styles. yes, it takes time, most of these are skills that take YEARS to learn. you (and your companions) are learning them in a few hours.

If you're looking for a more arcade-like experience, I'm sure google can tell you how to enable cheats. I'd be surprised if it wasn't control+X in a character menu to level up that character (or give a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of exp) still.

[Edmund Greyfox]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

引用自 Sabaithal：

So let me get this straight. The problem here is that a companion doesn't have the required skill to lead a caravan, yes?

So your solution...is a trial-by-fire approach by forcing them into a caravan anyway and hoping for the best, or rather hoping they don't get killed off well before learning anything (as mine did the first time)? Might be the only solution for all I know, but I wouldn't call this good design.

First and foremost, I said put the right companions in charge. There are two ways to do this:

1) find someone who has some of the skills needed for the job and can learn the rest as time goes on, which to be fair is pretty easy to do (reminder: yes, the purpose of a caravan is to trade and make money, but its still a war party just like any other. Leadership, medicine, and steward are still useful even if you may WANT trading and scouting).

2) find someone with a lot of unspent free attribute and focus points and set them up to grow into the role that you need them to fill (admittedly, I only ever found 1 person who fit this description and I may have to see if one of my settings changes this). Of the two, I would wager that this has the better long term potential (but again, extremely rare. I've only ever found 1 companion who fit this bill).

Secondly, trial by fire is what the game does to you, hell I'd even argue that's the point of the game. The same AI that controls the caravans also controls all the other parties on the map.

引用自 Edmund Greyfox：

Gosh, it almost as if someone hasn't played the game enough to know what he's talking about. Go ahead, assign someone to lead a caravan, wait 10 game years, and then check to see that they haven't gained much in any of the skills they need. Or try and train one before you assign them, and see how long it takes you.

The day the game gives us a chance to track how long we've had an association with companions is the day I'll entertain this. Yes, soft skills take forever to train, did you have a point? or are you trying (and failing) to be a smartass?

My point is that what you're advocating doesn't work, and if you had actually played the game much you would already know it doesn't. Good luck finding any companion that has decent trade that also has tactics, scouting, or any of the other skills needed by a caravan leader. Assuming they survive for more then a couple months you can watch them and see that none of those other skills go up by much, even if you wait 10 game years.

[saintsfan36]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

引用自 saintsfan36：

If your reply is a smart*** version of "train your companions for the job," then obviously you are the one that hasn't actually played this game. There is no "training" your companions to do anything. It takes forever to get one to make ONE level, much less make multiple levels that would be required to manipulate the direction of their skill set.

the training is called "learning by doing", its actually one of the 3 learning styles. yes, it takes time, most of these are skills that take YEARS to learn. you (and your companions) are learning them in a few hours.

If you're looking for a more arcade-like experience, I'm sure google can tell you how to enable cheats. I'd be surprised if it wasn't control+X in a character menu to level up that character (or give a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of exp) still.

By the time you "learn" enough to level enough times to manipulate a companion's stats, you are probably just about done with the playthrough and making the caravan at this point would be irrelevant.

I appreciate your ability to find a way to continue to be a smart***. One more "leet dood" "git gud" smart*** for the block list.

[EmotionallyBroken]

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

引用自 Sabaithal：

Great, train companions. How exactly? Because after 300 ingame days so far, they rarely if ever get their skills up, and I've never once seen them level up.

You train them by having them use their skills. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Not a difficult concept.

You sure you played warband?

Edit: to be fair, warband didn’t have you train your “soft” skills by using them, so I can see confusion there. But the game literally tells you how to train each skill.

Imagine, some people expect those skills to go up in a way that isnt negligible just by practice , like the following . Maybe its because they didnt play warband that didnt even have caravan mechanics.

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You train them by having them use their skills. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Not a difficult concept.

[saintsfan36]

引用自 EmotionallyBroken：

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You train them by having them use their skills. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Not a difficult concept.

You sure you played warband?

Edit: to be fair, warband didn’t have you train your “soft” skills by using them, so I can see confusion there. But the game literally tells you how to train each skill.

Imagine, some people expect those skills to go up in a way that isnt negligible just by practice , like the following . Maybe its because they didnt play warband that didnt even have caravan mechanics.

引用自 Nolo Contendere：

You train them by having them use their skills. The more you do something, the better you get at it. Not a difficult concept.

Repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true. While theoretically this would be true, in reality it doesn't happen with any kind of relatively useful speed in the game. I suggest to you, and others with your stance, to actually go play the game. Without mods, without using console commands or cheats, just actually play the game. You will find that the companions, no matter how much you use them, will almost never gain a new level. It is extremely slow and not even remotely quick enough for them to gain enough levels that a player can significantly change/alter the companion's skill sets.

True, it is not a difficult concept to grasp "the more you have them do it, the better they get at it." So would it be such a difficult concept for people like you to actually play the game so that you know what you are talking about instead of spouting nonsense? Probably not.

One more for the block list.